726 lines
30 KiB
Plaintext
726 lines
30 KiB
Plaintext
AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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December 13, 1988 10:00 pm Eastern
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Topic: Pascal and C
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Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim)
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AFL Jim Looks like a nice small group tonight...
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JSchober Ummm... not too much.... yup, Jim...
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AFL Tom Cozy.
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AFL Jim The topic is Pascal and C, Shadow, but we rarely stick to it.
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AFA Gary J I haven't noticed our banner yet, though.
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AFL Jim We'll see if Santa-Eileen programmed one for us.
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JSchober 'tain't a banner... 'tis a wyrm... (pronounced: wyrm...)
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Shadow100 Apple pascal or TML(other) pascal?
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JSchober Hi, Airship.
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Dave Lyons As long as we're not on topic yet, somebody please explain to me
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why "lowest
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AFL Jim Either, Both
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Airship Hi everybody.
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AFA Gary J Hi Airship
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Dave Lyons common denomonator" in Life means something _minimal_, while w/
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fractions it
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ScottG25 Howdy air!
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JSchober Hi Parik, Dennis!
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Dave Lyons means something that is _bigger_than a collection of things,
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actually having
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ScottG25 Howdy Parik!
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Dave Lyons each of them as a _factor_?
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Airship Hmmmmm....sounds deep...
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JSchober Errr.... <bzzzzzt!> <Dave's Q just fizzled what was left of my
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brain..........>
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AFA Parik Hiya all. I'm doing some work outside the house, so don't pay
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attention to me
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AFA Parik :-)
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AFA Gary J Hmmm. Sounds like a question you should program a computer to
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figure out...
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AFA Gary J :)
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JSchober :) Gary...
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AFL Jim 42
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Dave Lyons :)
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AFL Jim Hi Dennis
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AFL Jim Hi Parik
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DennisDoms Hi, all.
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AFL Jim We're all here, so let's get started.
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JSchober All?? Ok, welllll... :)
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AFL Jim Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum. Tonight's scheduled
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topic is Pascal
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JSchober (yo Matt!)
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AFL Jim and C. I'm Jim Luther, the Forum Leader here and Gary Jacobson,
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AFA Gary J, is
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AFL Jim the Forum Assistant for this forum.
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AFL Jim Poke? That's BASIC?
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AFA Parik (Hi Matt & John)
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JSchober :) Jim...
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JSchober (hi John)
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AFA Gary J (Just what I was thinking!)
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AFL Jim Hi Matt, John
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AFL Jim Obviously, the banners *don
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AFL Jim *don't* come from Quantums technical department.
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AFA Gary J :)
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JSchober (hi, Mike)
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Dave Lyons Yeah, you can write a Poke in either Pascal or C, Jim :)
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AFL Jim Aren't pointers great?
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JSchober (howdy, Steve...)
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Dave Lyons void Poke(addr,val) char *addr; char val; { *addr = val; } :-)
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St SteveW Hiya Joe
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AFL Jim About the only new news I have in the Apple II Pascal/C world is
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that TML,
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JSchober (hi, John)...
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AFL Jim the Byte Works and Apple are working together to standardize the
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Pascal
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AFL Jim interfaces to the IIGS Toolbox. There will be some changes to both
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TML and ORCA
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JSchober (hi Cecil)
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CecilFret Hi guys (and gals?)
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AFL Jim Pascal as a result, but it should make writing books, magazine
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articles, etc.
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AFL Jim a lot easier.
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AFL Jim Hi Cecil, John, St...
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St SteveW Hi Jim
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AFL Jim Hi Sue
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JSchober (hi, Sue...)
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SueFox Hi Jim
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SueFox Hi All
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AFL Jim Pascal interface standards should also make it possible for Apple
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to publish
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AFL Jim more technical information using Pascal examples.
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AFL Jim Tom, Matt, do either of you know how far along these standards
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are?
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JSchober (hi, Jack!)
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Matt DTS I'll pass that one to Tom.
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AFL Jack hiya Joe :)
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AFL Tom Thanks, Matt. No, I am not sure. I should pass that one on to
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Tim Swihart,
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AFL Tom but he's not here!
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CecilFret I know I jumped in late, but how about standards for C??????
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also
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AFL Tom And about the examples, Jim, I'll leave a hint that you have a
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good idea about examples.
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AFL Jim The first I heard of it was at the Apple Spring Developer's
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Conference last
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AFL Jim April.
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AFL Jim also what, Cecil?
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AFL Jim (Hi Steve)
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Airship What's the learning curve like for C?
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CecilFret The also was an afterthought. My point is, give C equal time with
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respec to
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CecilFret pascal
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CecilFret Airship, what other languages do you know?
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AFL Jim What language(s) do you know already, Airship?
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AFL Jim :)
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AFL Tom (Is there an echo in here?)
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AFL Jim ...in here?)
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Airship Very experience in BASIC, dabble in Pascal, intermediate 65c02.
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JSchober ...in here?) ...here?) ...here?)
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CecilFret No echo, just people from Missoure thinking alike jus like great
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minds:)
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JSchober (hi Hal)
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AFA Gary J GMTA
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Dave Lyons You shouldn't have much trouble w/ C, then...'course, a "lint"
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utility would
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CecilFret Airship, the Pascal people will laugh me right off the screen,
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however....
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AFL Jim Going from Pascal to C was very easy for me Airship
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Dave Lyons help a lot, since it would catch a lot of errors that aren't
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"really" errors
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CecilFret I have dabbled in both languages and found C to follow Pascall
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easily.
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Dave Lyons as far as the compiler's concerned.
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AFL Jim (Hello HalC2)
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CecilFret Gotta watch C though. As long as bracketes {} match, C will figure
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out somethin
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CecilFret to do with it
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HalC2 Hello Jim
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Matt DTS There's currently more of a need for standards since there are two
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Pascal...
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Dave Lyons :) Yeah, making a punctuation error in C usually results in a
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valid programs
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Matt DTS ...compilers out there, but only one C compiler (from Apple).
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Dave Lyons (er...program) that doesn't do what you wanted.
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Airship Is there a C comiler other than APW currently available?
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AFA Gary J So far..Matt.
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JSchober (hi, Doc)
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HalC2 I am looking for a good Pascal or C compiler for the AppleII. I
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have APWC
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HalC2 and TML Pascal for my IIGS
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HalC2 Any suggestions?
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MikeJK ORCA C is due early next year.
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AFL Jim Hal: The only one you don't have is ORCA/Pascal
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AFA Gary J Hal, are you talking about Pascal or C for a NON IIGS Apple II?
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Dave Lyons HalC2, you're looking for a non-GS C compiler?
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HalC2 But I need these to support the older IIe and IIc
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Airship I've heard APW can be pretty overwelming unless you're pretty
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experienced.
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JSchober (hi, Ksuther... EGADS! 20!!)
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Dave Lyons (echo, echo...)
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Doc Banks How different will ORCA C be from APW C, which I'm using now?
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AFL Jim Hi Kathryn
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KSUTHER Hello folks.
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AFA Gary J Q = Hal
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THE GIBBER It won't be too much different, look at the differences in apw and
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orca/m ;)
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AFL Jim Mike Westerfield has stated that ORCA/C will be very compatible
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with APW/C
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CecilFret Uhoh the boss just showed up!!!. HI msk
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CecilFret Airship, I don't think APW is all that bad. After all, the IIgs
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is not really
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KSUTHER Hello Tractor man
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CecilFret for beginners.
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AFL Jim Hal: I believe that one of the 2 Pascal compilers for the //e is
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now gone, tat
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Doc Banks I'm brand new to C, and I like challenges, so I haven't found APW
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C too bad.
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AFL Jim that is Kyan Pascal. Apple Pascal is still available from APDA.
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Airship Can you run APW on a 1.25 meg machine with one 3.5 drive (& a
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5.25)?
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Matt DTS If you enjoy personal frustration, yes.
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AFL Jim :)
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CecilFret Not the best but possible Airship. As long as you have APW on 3.5
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and source
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Matt DTS Maybe.
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CecilFret on 5.25"
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THE GIBBER LOL
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HalC2 Airship, I have. I know have 2 of each and thats not enough.
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JSchober (hi, Ralfy) LOL Matt...
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JSchober (hi Fuzzzzy)
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Ralfy Hi. Lots of people here.
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THE GIBBER I got frustrated with 2 3.5's and I bought a 60 meg hd for my
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workshop
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Fuzzzzy Hi.
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Airship Hmmmm...sounds like the best thing to do is wait for Orca/C or the
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like.
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JSchober :) John... agreed.... HD's are inifinitely nicer than floppies,
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especially for
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JSchober development... (and BBS'es.. %)
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HalC2 Gibber, who made the drive?
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AFL Jim Hal: The only C I know of for the //e is Manx Aztec C which seemed
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to be very
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AFA Parik Not when they die...
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THE GIBBER Rodime
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JSchober :) Parik...
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AFL Jim slow last time I saw it.
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Fuzzzzy Wasn't there a Hippo C for the //?
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Airship I've got Aztec C...haven't got too far into it yet but it seems to
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be a good...
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DennisDoms That was WSM (Hippo C)...they're gone, too. (sigh)
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Airship system to learn the fundamentals on.
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AFL Jim Oh yeah... there's Small-C from the Byte Works, but it is more of
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a learning
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CecilFret There used to be a good small C available from out outfit in
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Arizona. I don't
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AFL Jim tool. Not for writing applications.
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CecilFret know if they are still in business.
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JSchober (hi Charles)
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BIG LYFORD Hello Joe
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AFL Jim Hi Charles
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BIG LYFORD Hi All
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BIG LYFORD What's up?
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KSUTHER It would be nice to have a comparative review of the different C's
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out there.
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Airship For learning C it looks like Manx Apprentice C is hard to beat
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(only $20!).
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HalC2 Thanks for the C compiler suggestions.
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KSUTHER Anyone interested in tackling this project for Call -A.P.P.L.E.
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CecilFret Hey all you C people, K Suther made a good point. Let me add my
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two bits
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Matt DTS (That would be the solicited rate, guys! Better jump!)
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AFL Jim Does *anyone* know what happened to Kyan Software?
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CecilFret and ask you experts to put together some articles on C
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Dave Lyons :)
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AFL Jim :) Matt
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Dave Lyons (My :) was for Matt, too)
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Matt DTS (Don't shoot me, Kathryn... :-)
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KSUTHER :- humm haven't learned that one yet.
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BIG LYFORD I looked at C. It makes no sense. Needed: a book comparing BASIC
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to C, line by
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BIG LYFORD line
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Matt DTS It's one where the) serves two purposes. ASCII economy.
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AFL Jim For those you you who haven't been introduced, Cecil and Kathryn
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are the editor
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AFL Jim and technical editor of Call-A.P.P.L.E. magazine.
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Dave Lyons Big L, have you done anything with Pascal? Makes a much easier
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comparison.
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JSchober I know Cecil, but hi, Kathryn. :)
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Dave Lyons A lot of things in C have no parallels in BASIC (local variables,
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parameter
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Dave Lyons passing, etc.).
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BIG LYFORD No. I seem stuck on Applesoft.
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CecilFret Uh Oh Jschober, how did we meet
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Matt DTS I have this book from Compute! (don't laugh) called "From BASIC to
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C"...
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JSchober Errr.... well, here... :)
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Matt DTS ...which does a fairly decent job of leveraging off BASIC
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knowledge...
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Matt DTS ...to teach C concepts and practices.
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Fuzzzzy Matt: Haha
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CecilFret Comparing line by line C to BASIC is not all that straightforward
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Big Lyford
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Doc Banks I found Schildt's Advanced C (1st ed.) to be helpful in making
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conversion...
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Doc Banks from BASIC to C.
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Airship That's the problem I had with C...looks pretty cryptic.
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JSchober Ummm... if anyone sent me a FN that I didn't answer... sorry....
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if it was
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JSchober important, send it again s'il vous plait....
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AFL Jim I learned from the book, "Programming in C" by Stephen Kochan
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JSchober But ditto, Airship. I have this funny feeling a C program is all
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commented
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THE GIBBER Try programming when your Dyslexic..... It is murder when
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debugging
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JSchober out.........
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AFA Parik (while Joe's swamped with FNs, lets all move to another room!
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:)
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Doc Banks Bye, folks :)
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CecilFret C does not have to be cryptic Airship.
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JSchober :PPPP Parik...
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AFA Parik Bye Doc!
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AFA Gary J Bye Doc.
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AFL Jim Bye Doc
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AFA Parik Its extremely cryptic when you're reading the moniter upside
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down...
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Dave Lyons It's more _fun_ when it's cryptic, though :)
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JSchober (hi Jeff)
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BIG LYFORD There's an interesting idea " more fun if it's cryptic"
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AFL Jim char (*(*x()) []) ()
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Dave Lyons Well, it's fun when you're _writing_ cryptic code, but not when
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you're trying
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Dave Lyons to read somebody else's, although that's good practice for writing
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more of
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BIG LYFORD I think it's more effective if it's understandable and useable.
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JSchober Riiiight Jim...
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Dave Lyons your own later.
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AFA Gary J Looks more like line noise than program logic.
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St SteveW That was a pretty cryptic message in its own right, Dave :)
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JSchober :)
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Dave Lyons Are you going to decode that declaration for us, Jim?
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AFA Gary J :)
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Dave Lyons (There's a utility on some Unix systems that will actually do
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that, into
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AFL Jim :)
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AFA Parik Looks like something LaPub would serve when DTS is Serving...
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Dave Lyons English description...called 'cdecl' I think.)
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JSchober hehehehehehehe
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AFA Gary J LOL, Parik!
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CecilFret Translates to x=x doesn't it Jim?
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Ralfy Or x<>x?
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AFL Jim x: function returning pointer to array [] of pointer to function
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returning char
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AFL Jim :)
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JSchober Say WHAT?!
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CecilFret Airship, one thing about C or Pascal is their structured nature.
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The new
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AFA Gary J :)
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CecilFret BASICS for the IIgs are starting to introduce structured
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programming
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CecilFret capabilities.
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Dave Lyons Gee, I was trying to work it out myself :( :-)
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AFA Parik (lets go to LaPub and try to serve the drink Jim concocted :)
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AFL Jim The IIGS Toolbox is much easier to program with C or Pascal
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(compared to BASIC)
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Dave Lyons Sure Joe, haven't you ever needed a data type like that? :)
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JSchober ::gulp:: <faint>
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CecilFret For sure JIM!
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Dave Lyons Ralfy, "<>" isn't part of C...try "!=" instead! :)
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JSchober Yeah, Dave... remind me to include THAT in UPD!! (re-starting work
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on it in
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JSchober three days......)
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AFL Jim Pascal and C both let you define your own data structures. With
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IIGS BASIC
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BIG LYFORD I guess I'll stick with Applesoft.
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Airship Yeh...The structured Basic's are great...I'm really attracted to
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more...
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Ralfy My basic - you C.
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Airship structured langs. like Pascal or C... but sometimes they're like
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working...
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AFA Parik :) Ralfy
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AFL Jim languages, you must either use some kind of "glue" library
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routines to access
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Ralfy Read me for my
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Dave Lyons Big L, please don't let Jim's example scare you away from C: it's
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NOT a
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Airship with a toolbox with too many tools...you've got to weed out those
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you need.
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AFL Jim the toolbox or load the toobox call's parameters into an array
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(Micol).
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Dave Lyons typical data strucutre. In general it's easier to do things with
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structures
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CecilFret Airship, Lichty and Eyes have a new book coming out soon.
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Although it uses
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Dave Lyons and arrays than in BASIC, since you can give every type a nice
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name and
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Dave Lyons get at pieces of structures by name, etc.
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CecilFret assembly language, it is a good book to get to put some order into
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the toolbox
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AFL Jim Cecil, right!
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CecilFret Have you seen it JIM?
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AFL Jim Yes
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CecilFret I reviewed it in February
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CecilFret In final form JIM?
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AFA Gary J February? And it's not out yet?
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AFL Jim I didn't get to until November :(
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Ralfy Goodnight all....
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CecilFret I.E. bookstore?
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AFA Parik Night Ralfy!
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AFA Gary J Goodnight, Ralph
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JSchober Night, Ralfy!
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Airship I'll look forward to it...
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BIG LYFORD Night, Jon-Boy
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AFL Jim I've got a quick question for you all....
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MikeJK h
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JSchober GA Jim..... :)
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CecilFret ga jim
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Airship Speaking of arrays, I found TML BASIC has real problems when
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handling arrays.
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AFL Jim With APW's ability to add libraries to languages, what kind of
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library modules
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AFL Jim would you like to see available for C and Pascal?
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JeffDWoods That beats Integer problems, Airship! ;)
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JSchober Ummm... biased answer: something similar to Morgan's
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ModemWorks...
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Airship It has some weird quirks with integers too.:(
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AFL Jim I've already suggested that to Morgan, Joe.
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JSchober Oh. :)
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CecilFret That's a biggy Jim.
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JeffDWoods Jim, do you mean applications for libraries or implementation? (I
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have Orca.)
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AFL Jim I mean ready to use libraries of routines.
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AFL Jim (something like mini-toolboxes)
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JeffDWoods Do you mean libraries like the system loader uses? I didn't think
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the linker
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JeffDWoods supported them yet.
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Airship Clearly defined routines for handling graphics larger than the
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screen would...
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AFA Parik (dunno what a library is :) but how about some better text
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routines...windows
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AFA Parik and such.
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AFL Jim Some of the programming magazines (for non-Apple machines) seem to
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have lots
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Dave Lyons Modules like Jim's talking about could be regular libraries _or_
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run-time
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Airship be nice along with a versatile screen dump library.
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Dave Lyons libraries. I'm not sure whether they're supported yet or not.
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(As far as I
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Dave Lyons know they're not.)
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AFL Jim of "toolkits" available for Turbo Pascal (for example)
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JSchober Parik... a library is just a correction of procedures, if you're
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in Pascal
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JSchober terms. :)
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JSchober argh... correction = collection.
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Dave Lyons Quickdraw II can already handle bigger-than-screen graphics,
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Airship.
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JeffDWoods Automatic memory or disk based sorts (memory when available, disk
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otherwise)
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CecilFret Screen dump to where Airship? File or Printer?
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AFA Parik Doesn't help me joe, but don't bother. :)
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Matt DTS The MPW IIgs Linker (LinkIIgs) will create run-time libraries.
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JSchober :)
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Dave Lyons Will the GS loader load them, Matt?
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Airship Printer...the current routines I use leave my graphics looking
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chunky.
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Matt DTS Yup.
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Matt DTS (if it doesn't, it's a bug)
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THE GIBBER Joe, when aer uoy gniog to learn ot epyt?????
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Airship Yeh, QD II is nice, but its taking me forever to figure out the
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new terminology
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JeffDWoods Has anybody (we know of) used run-time libraries yet?
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JSchober I dunno.... one day, John... ;)_
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JSchober <see?!>
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ScottG25 This is off the subject, but I'd like to see more programs that
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make...
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CecilFret Airship, the November issue of Call -A.P.P.L.E. has a screen to
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printer CDA
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CecilFret with all the necessary code from Sandy Mossberg
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SEGlass Libraries don't have to be run time to be useful.
|
|
ScottG25 programming the user interface easier... such as layout, actions,
|
|
etc..more
|
|
AFA Gary J It works too, Cecil. (I tried it :)
|
|
Airship I like dump routines like Triple Dump were I can control the
|
|
quality.
|
|
JeffDWoods But run-time libraries allow the code to be shared which saves
|
|
memory & disk.
|
|
CecilFret For sure AFA Gary J. I modifed it to dump screen to text file.
|
|
AFL Jim Linkable libraries are very useful - look at ORCA/M for an
|
|
example.
|
|
Airship Cecil...text screen or SHR screen?
|
|
JSchober (hi Lance!)
|
|
AFA Gary J Exactly my idea, Cecil! :)
|
|
CecilFret Text screen Airship. Code could be easily modifed tohandle SHR
|
|
screen
|
|
CecilFret I think!!!
|
|
SEGlass Run-time libraries save disk space, but not necessarily space in
|
|
memory.
|
|
CecilFret Tain't easy AFA Gary
|
|
ScottG25 on the lines of a working thing, vice that dialog thing that I can
|
|
never get to
|
|
ScottG25 run...
|
|
CecilFret Amen SEGlass!!!!!
|
|
Airship Yeh, I've seen a lot of text screen dumpers.
|
|
JeffDWoods Steve, memory is saved if two or more routines (like NDAs) are
|
|
using the lib.
|
|
Airship I'd like to set my pront dumps up so one pixel on the screen give
|
|
one on the...
|
|
Airship printer.
|
|
JeffDWoods Aren't they?
|
|
SEGlass Only if the two things are in memory at the same time. Not a
|
|
likely
|
|
SEGlass occurance. Moreover, if you ship an application,
|
|
SEGlass you will have to provide a copy of the run time library. If you
|
|
ship
|
|
SEGlass another application you will have to ship another copy of the run
|
|
time
|
|
SEGlass library. You will also make certain that your users know how to
|
|
move
|
|
SEGlass things to a hard disk so that the libraries can be found. Only
|
|
SEGlass then will you start saving disk space.
|
|
JSchober (ok, night, Charles!)
|
|
BIG LYFORD Bye All.
|
|
SEGlass The cost of that space is potential compatibility problems if
|
|
there are ever
|
|
AFL Jim The Toolboxes are a kind of library...
|
|
AFA Parik Night Big Lyford!
|
|
SEGlass more than one copy of the library around. Believe me I know
|
|
about
|
|
SEGlass compatibility problems.
|
|
JeffDWoods But for multi-program applications, like NDAs etc., they would be
|
|
nice.
|
|
Matt DTS Only if the user had a large number of NDAs and programs which all
|
|
used the...
|
|
SEGlass No doubt they can be useful. Just take care in deciding when it
|
|
is
|
|
SEGlass right to use them.
|
|
Matt DTS ...same RTL, Jeff. Otherwise multiple RTLs could clog the 2/
|
|
directory.
|
|
SEGlass A good example would be if you were to sell a collection of DAs
|
|
and
|
|
JeffDWoods Also, for commercial Apps they have disadvantages, but they could
|
|
be moved into
|
|
SEGlass wanted to share code.
|
|
JeffDWoods the program file by changing to linked libs before shipping.
|
|
AFL Jim That's exactly what Kyan did with their Code Optimizer package for
|
|
Kyan Pascal.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Isn't acronym double-duty Fun? RTL = return from subroutine
|
|
long; run-time
|
|
Dave Lyons library; NDA = New Desk Accessory; nondisclosure agreement.
|
|
More?)
|
|
JSchober :) Dave...
|
|
AFL Jim They linked only the routines needed by your application into the
|
|
executable
|
|
AFL Jim file.
|
|
THE GIBBER No Daves Allowed????
|
|
JeffDWoods Can run-time libs be created by anything other the
|
|
MPW-IIGS-cross-linker?
|
|
AFA Parik Hehehe Dave
|
|
Matt DTS DTP = Desktop publishing or Developer Texa Port... :-)
|
|
Dave Lyons (ADB = AppleWorks Database; Apple Desktop Bus)... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons :) Gibber
|
|
Matt DTS The APW linker currently doesn't make Run time libraries, but I
|
|
don't know...
|
|
THE GIBBER ADB= A Definite Bug ;)
|
|
JSchober hehehehe
|
|
AFA Parik :)
|
|
Matt DTS ...about the TML or ORCA linkers (or the Micol OMF converter)
|
|
SEGlass There is an MPW x-dev tool called makelibiigs that makes
|
|
libraries.
|
|
JeffDWoods I don't think Orca & TML can.
|
|
SEGlass The MPW x-dev linker can link files that follow our OMF
|
|
standards.
|
|
SEGlass They can be created by the cross assembler, the apw assembler, a
|
|
compiler
|
|
JeffDWoods Does MakeLibIIgs run on the Mac or GS?
|
|
SEGlass running on either machine. They all can be linked together and/or
|
|
made into
|
|
SEGlass libraries.
|
|
SEGlass The IIGS suffix is for tools running under MPW on a Mac.
|
|
AFL Jim Jeff: Mac
|
|
JeffDWoods So the only way to make a IIgs RTL is to buy a Mac. :(
|
|
AFL Jim For now :)
|
|
SEGlass Isn't there a makelib facility in APW?
|
|
JeffDWoods For over 2 years....
|
|
Matt DTS Yeah, but the linker won't support run-time libraries, Steve.
|
|
AFL Jim makelib under APW makes a linakable library, Steve.
|
|
JeffDWoods MakeLib makes linker libs. Don't RTLs have a different format?
|
|
AFL Jim (-a)
|
|
Fuzzzzy I have a Mac II for sale - $1500.
|
|
SEGlass I guess we gotta start somewhere.
|
|
AFL Jim sure!
|
|
Fuzzzzy <just kidding> :)
|
|
AFA Parik Sold Fuzzzy. :)
|
|
AFA Parik dang. :-)
|
|
JSchober heh... $2.34 < $1500, but I can bounce a check, LOL....
|
|
THE GIBBER Check the serial number, and then lets have a b-b-Q ;)
|
|
Airship Got iit Cecil, thanx.
|
|
AFA Gary J I had finger arrest there....the price knocked me off my chair,
|
|
Fuzzzzy. :)
|
|
JSchober hehe Gary...
|
|
Fuzzzzy <Did I say Mac II, I meant Apple II>
|
|
ScottG25 made a profit, Joe? used to be 2.32..
|
|
AFA Parik :-)
|
|
JSchober :) Fuzzy...
|
|
JSchober Yeah, I got a nickel from Marty.... %)
|
|
AFA Gary J OH! Minor detail... (heheh)
|
|
Airship Is that with 16K and all!?
|
|
THE GIBBER OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
|
|
JSchober Oops... wrong. Dave owes me a nickel; Marty gave me $0.02...
|
|
AFL Jim It looks as though our scheduled hour is up this week. Feel free
|
|
to stick
|
|
AFL Jim around longer.
|
|
AFA Parik Dang, we didn't make 23+...:(
|
|
AFL Jim Thnks for coming tonight.
|
|
AFA Parik Wanted to see if the room would blow up. :)
|
|
CecilFret Yup, us grandpas to be need to get our beauty rest
|
|
SEGlass There are good ways to simulate the run time libraries using user
|
|
tools.
|
|
JSchober Thanks, Jim... :) It was most interesting.........
|
|
KSUTHER Thanks Jim!
|
|
SEGlass You don't need any linker support.
|
|
JeffDWoods Thanks for the info, Matt & Steve! I appreciate the direct input.
|
|
:)
|
|
AFA Parik ::::clap:::: ::::clap::::
|
|
Dave Lyons Why do I owe you a nickel, Joe?
|
|
Airship G'nite everybody!
|
|
AFA Gary J How's that, Steve?
|
|
Airship ()()()()()()()()
|
|
CecilFret Standing applause
|
|
JSchober Something about a bet you made in AUT with Floyd about ACU... but
|
|
I paid off
|
|
JSchober the bet.... something like that. ;)
|
|
CecilFret Night all!
|
|
KSUTHER Hey Dave Lyons, where is that article for Call you talked with
|
|
Charlie about?
|
|
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Cecil.
|
|
AFA Parik (let him rave a little Dave, its good for programmers to let out
|
|
their
|
|
JSchober >> From: Dave Lyons / >> I'll bet you a nickel........
|
|
JSchober Night, Cecil!
|
|
AFA Parik frustrations in chat rooms instead of in the shell :)
|
|
SEGlass I think what I'll do is explain it all to Matt and have him post
|
|
it.
|
|
MikeJK Night all. Thanks fom a MUMPSTER
|
|
JSchober Night, Mike.
|
|
AFL Jim Gary: Steve's talking about writing your own Toolboxes.
|
|
AFL Jim Bye Mike
|
|
AFA Gary J OK...
|
|
JeffDWoods Steve, do you consider user toolsets a good substitute for TRLs?
|
|
JeffDWoods oops... RTLs?
|
|
AFA Parik Take 2 2x3' pieces of wood, saw together, put a top on, you have
|
|
one sturdy
|
|
AFA Parik toolbox.
|
|
THE GIBBER LOL
|
|
SEGlass I think it could be a good substitute.
|
|
JSchober grrrrooaaan....
|
|
JSchober Hi, Mike.
|
|
AFA Parik Hi Mike!
|
|
Matt DTS ("and HAVE him post it..." And I thought just Harry didn't like
|
|
me...)
|
|
Matt DTS <professional grumbler>
|
|
JSchober :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
THE GIBBER Is that the //gs Carpenter's tool box???
|
|
SEGlass Matt, now everyone knows why we hired you?
|
|
Fuzzzzy Matt: Done with the A2 technotes yet? <ducking>
|
|
Matt DTS You just wait, Steve. I'll get you, and your little dog, too.
|
|
JeffDWoods I think it is more cumbersome to interface with, but otherwise a
|
|
good solution.
|
|
AFA Parik Yup John. Use it to take apart your GS and install faster parts.
|
|
:)
|
|
Matt DTS TNs are in duplicatin.
|
|
AFA Parik <amatuer grumbler>
|
|
JSchober hehehehe Parik!
|
|
JSchober ARE in, or will be RSN?? ;)
|
|
SEGlass I must leave. See you all soon.
|
|
Matt DTS It's the same thing. :-)
|
|
AFL Jim Bye Steve
|
|
Matt DTS G'night, Steve.
|
|
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Steve.
|
|
JSchober hehehehehe... NOW we know... ;)
|
|
AFA Parik (2 more days, and Apple package should be at my door :)
|
|
JSchober Bye, Steve!
|
|
Dave Lyons Bye, Steve!
|
|
JeffDWoods Have the TNs been uploaded yet, or do they have to wait for
|
|
duplication??? ;)
|
|
AFA Parik Night Steve!
|
|
Fuzzzzy So they'll be ready for the November developer mailing that is
|
|
going to be mailed in Jan? ;)
|
|
THE GIBBER Afa Parik: What apple package is that ????
|
|
Matt DTS The text files aren't done, but the paper ones are in
|
|
duplication.
|
|
ScottG25 Fuzzy///// LOL!!
|
|
Matt DTS Text files are in progress.
|
|
AFA Parik John, the developer packages always come in on the 15th for me,
|
|
and the Septemb
|
|
Matt DTS Well, g'night. Gotta go read messages.
|
|
AFA Parik issue promised me a whole new set of TNs. Its gonna come
|
|
eventually. :)
|
|
JSchober CUL Matt..
|
|
AFA Gary J Fuzzzzy...Apple's clock is 2 months slow..
|
|
AFA Parik Bye Matt
|
|
THE GIBBER Is it the apple package from Colombia??????
|
|
JeffDWoods One would think the paper copies would printed from computer text
|
|
files. :)
|
|
Fuzzzzy Gee, did I run Matt off? :)
|
|
AFL Jim 'Night, Matt
|
|
THE GIBBER Now we know where you get those crazy game Ideas ;)
|
|
ScottG25 Probably are, Jeff... MacWrite...
|
|
AFA Gary J They are, Jeff...MacWrite
|
|
AFA Parik :P John
|
|
JSchober Right, what Scott said... and Gary... :(
|
|
AFA Parik (why don't they use AppleWorks GS? hehehe)
|
|
JeffDWoods So what is the delay on uploads?
|
|
JSchober LOL Parik...
|
|
AFA Gary J Right, Parik.. We need a conversion utility.
|
|
AFA Gary J (MacWrite to AppleWorks GS)
|
|
AFL Jim Parik, they want them printed this year :)
|
|
AFA Parik :)
|
|
Fuzzzzy Parik: They tried that but got too many "Serious Sytem Errors".
|
|
hehehe
|
|
AFA Gary J hehehe
|
|
ScottG25 THAT is the best suggestion I've heard in ages!
|
|
JSchober LOL Jim....
|
|
JeffDWoods How about "Print to disc","AFE", and import into GSWorks?
|
|
AFA Parik And notice how the tech notes are justified...
|
|
AFA Parik (try that in AW GS)
|
|
AFA Parik Its appleWorks GS now Jeff. (GSWorks -> AppleWorks GS)
|
|
Fuzzzzy Jeff: The technotes are in Mac format, Matt is working to convert
|
|
them to straight text.
|
|
AFA Gary J Jeff...the graphics don't come across that way.
|
|
JSchober Heck... classic AWorks will do THAT, Parik!
|
|
AFA Parik hi F4Eart!
|
|
JeffDWoods But I strongly prefer GSWorks. :) It's easier to say, & I liked
|
|
StyleWare!
|
|
JSchober Hi, F4...
|
|
JSchober hehehe... it WAS a better name...
|
|
F4EART hello !
|
|
AFA Parik heheh Jeff.
|
|
JSchober Now we have this AppleWorks (Classic) vs AppleWorks GS stuff...
|
|
Fuzzzzy I'm outta here. Bye all.
|
|
AFA Parik Does anyone know if the Print Managers justification routines
|
|
work?
|
|
AFA Parik Bye Fuzzzzy!
|
|
JeffDWoods If you care about how long ot takes to print there is NO decision
|
|
to make!!!
|
|
AFL Jim Sounds like the Coca-Cola wars all over again.
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
JSchober hehehehe... Classic AW, New AW...
|
|
JSchober fun fun fun...
|
|
AFA Parik Tastes Great...
|
|
JSchober Less filling!
|
|
AFA Parik :)
|
|
JSchober (Less expensive, too...)
|
|
THE GIBBER Appleworks Gs is a good idea. Now they need a machine that will
|
|
take it to
|
|
AFA Gary J We just need to make the "classic" AppleWorks into a CDA now...
|
|
|
|
THE GIBBER it's limits :)
|
|
JeffDWoods I don't think the Print Manager justifies buying GSWorks. ;)
|
|
JSchober hehehehe Gary...
|
|
Dave Lyons Tastes great / less speed
|
|
THE GIBBER LOL
|
|
JSchober Gotta run for now, folks.... thanks for the chat, Jim/Gary... see
|
|
y'all later!
|
|
AFA Parik Bye Joe!
|
|
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Joe.
|
|
THE GIBBER By joey
|
|
ScottG25 Less speed!
|