367 lines
17 KiB
Plaintext
367 lines
17 KiB
Plaintext
America Online
|
|
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
|
|
Tuesday, May 29, 1990 10:00 p.m. eastern time
|
|
Topic: Open Discussion
|
|
Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFA Gary J)
|
|
|
|
Coach101 Dave, have you ever tried debugging an AppleTalk completion
|
|
routine
|
|
Dave Lyons Coach, Yeah, I actually have...not very fun or productive, though.
|
|
GSBug
|
|
Dave Lyons doesn't appreciate the stack being in page 1 or even being inside
|
|
an interrupt, I think.
|
|
Coach101 with GsBug (init version)? Its real sport!
|
|
AFL Scott Anyone... have you tried to make a program designed for single
|
|
segment use
|
|
AFL Scott into a mulit-segment program? Pain the butt.
|
|
AFL Scott With Merlin, that is.
|
|
Coach101 Scott, no, but if there are a lot of references depending on the
|
|
B/K
|
|
Coach101 registers, I would not care to try the operation!
|
|
AFA Gary J I have with ORCA, Scott.
|
|
AFL Scott With Orca it's a dream, but with Merlin... YUCKO.
|
|
AFL Scott Coach, you got it, dude!:)
|
|
AFL Scott I'm converting it now by hand to Orca.
|
|
Coach101 I sure hope that code was W-E-L-L commented!!!!
|
|
AFL Scott It wasn't. :( BIG :((
|
|
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok, it's about time to start.
|
|
AFA Gary J Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum conference. Tonight is
|
|
an open
|
|
AFA Gary J topic, so feel free to discuss anything you'd like. Function has
|
|
a question
|
|
AFA Gary J on the floor at the moment...
|
|
Function Does anyone know anything about the IIgs Console Driver?
|
|
Dave Lyons Function, I'm moderately familiary with it...what's your
|
|
question?
|
|
Function Well I need to know how to use and load it.
|
|
Dave Lyons Function, the console driver is loaded automatically when you boot
|
|
GS/OS.
|
|
Function Well how do I write stuff to the screen using it?
|
|
Dave Lyons Function, do you have any GS/OS reference material? There's at
|
|
least a chapter on the
|
|
Dave Lyons Console Driver.
|
|
Function No, I don't have the GS/OS Reference material.
|
|
Dave Lyons You'll want the GS/OS Reference as soon as it comes out (the
|
|
current APDA draft will do if you need
|
|
Dave Lyons it fast).
|
|
Coach101 Function, can you open, read, and write files?
|
|
Function How much do the latest GS/OS refs cost? Are they still beta?
|
|
Function I'm not an APDA member does that matter?
|
|
Matt DTS The only GS/OS references available at this point are the pre 5.0
|
|
ones. We expect to have an Addison-
|
|
Matt DTS Wesley 5.0 GS/OS Reference later this year, and partners can get
|
|
the information they need from DTS
|
|
Matt DTS in the meantime. GA.
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok, let's move on to the next question. GA Mike.
|
|
Nuzz I'd like to know what the proceedure is on using a Line Edit
|
|
Control without
|
|
Nuzz Taskmaster.
|
|
Nuzz I can create it, display it, but can't get the idle, or
|
|
insertion
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Dave
|
|
Dave Lyons (1) Why don't you want to use TaskMaster? and
|
|
Dave Lyons (2) You pretty much do the same stuff that TaskMaster would do if
|
|
you were
|
|
Dave Lyons using it. That is, on a mouseDown you call
|
|
Dave Lyons FindControl and TrackControl; on a keyDown you call
|
|
SendEventToCtl, etc. ga
|
|
Nuzz That's where I'm confused.
|
|
Dave Lyons What it? I'm confused.
|
|
Nuzz Do I call SendEvent after the TrackControl
|
|
Dave Lyons No, SendEventToCtl should only be needed if
|
|
Dave Lyons you get a keypress, I believe.
|
|
Nuzz So I should call SendEventToctl then TrackControl
|
|
Nuzz Both after FindControl
|
|
Dave Lyons TrackControl is only for mouseDown events.
|
|
Dave Lyons So SendEventToCtl is what you want for a keypress while the LE
|
|
control is the Target control,
|
|
Dave Lyons regardless of where the mouse is (FindControl not necessary).
|
|
Dave Lyons Hmmm...Matt says you have to call SendEventToCtl to send Null
|
|
events to the target control
|
|
Matt DTS The pseudo-code for TaskMaster in TB Ref volume 3 is useful in
|
|
these instances, methinks.
|
|
Nuzz OK, do I send another SendEvent to keep the Insertion blinking
|
|
Dave Lyons if you want the insertion point to blink. Sounds reasonable.
|
|
Nuzz OK, I think I gotit. Thanks, GA
|
|
Dave Lyons (So SendEventToCtl for TargetOnly on a null event.) ga
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok, let's move on to Doctor Why's question. GA, Doc.
|
|
Doctor Why I'm loading in a 'resourced' cursor in an ORCA/Pascal program. It
|
|
displays
|
|
Doctor Why okay, but when I move it I notice that there are narrow columns
|
|
where the
|
|
Doctor Why cursor appears as junk. I am guessing that these columns are about
|
|
every 8
|
|
Doctor Why pixels. Any thoughts?
|
|
AFA Gary J Could be your mask pointer is messed up, but I don't really
|
|
know.
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Dave
|
|
Dave Lyons The mask is a good possibility. Make sure you have an extra word
|
|
of width on each row. If
|
|
Dave Lyons it's still messed up & you're reasonably sure you aren't trashing
|
|
RAM at random, send me your
|
|
Dave Lyons cursor & I'll see if it happens here too. ga
|
|
Doctor Why Okay, Thanks
|
|
AFA Gary J For those who have come in later this evening, tonight is an open
|
|
topic night,
|
|
AFA Gary J so feel free to ask any questions. We are using protocol.
|
|
Seaspider I keep loosing tool 31 and 32 any ideas? Thank you..
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok, Seaspider snuck a question in there. Could you ask your
|
|
question again,
|
|
AFA Gary J please?
|
|
Seaspider Thanks Gary, I keep loosing tool 31 & 32 any ideas?
|
|
Seaspider (system tools)
|
|
AFA Gary J Loosing? You mean they're not there when you try to load them?
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Matt
|
|
Matt DTS It would be really hard to lose tool 31 as there is no tool 31 as
|
|
part of the system.
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
Matt DTS Tool 32 is the MIDI Tools (are?), and they are not installed with
|
|
the "Latest System Software"
|
|
Matt DTS installer script. You have to select either "Apple MIDI" or "Card
|
|
6850 MIDI" to get them. GA.
|
|
Seaspider Hummm, I have had to put them back in several times. One tool is
|
|
for games..
|
|
Seaspider Eg.. Couldn't play Carman San Diego until I put the tools
|
|
back...
|
|
Matt DTS It sounds like the program uses system tool set numbers when it
|
|
shouldn't. Sorry. GA.
|
|
Seaspider Ok thanks Matt.
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok, any other questions this evening?
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Scott
|
|
AFL Scott Dumb question... as usual... whats wrong with this
|
|
instruction...
|
|
AFL Scott lda $00FE,y?
|
|
Coach101 Nothing
|
|
AFL Scott APW and Orca barf on it. Illegal operand.
|
|
Matt DTS Try lda |$FE,y
|
|
Matt DTS $FE by itself would be a direct page address, and there probably
|
|
isn't a DP,y addressing mode.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Not for LDA, anyway.)
|
|
AFA Gary J That should work, I would think (lda |$FE,y)
|
|
AFL Scott There isn't, Matt. Will do it... Merlin doesn't barf on it,
|
|
though... The
|
|
AFL Scott disassembly listing by both the Rom, dumpobj, and NL like it, too.
|
|
Odd.
|
|
AFL Scott Done. Just an observation.
|
|
AFA Gary J The assembly will drop the leading zero's
|
|
Coach101 KLUDGE EQU $0093 LDA KLUDGE,Y Will also work :)
|
|
AFA Gary J At least in APW or ORCA. Merlin will treat it different.
|
|
AFL Scott Nope Coach... that doesn't work.
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Dave
|
|
Dave Lyons If you're looking for a possible reason, it could be that APW/ORCA
|
|
is trying to help
|
|
Dave Lyons you: if you *wanted* direct-page indexed (which you would get if
|
|
it existed for LDA), and it
|
|
Dave Lyons just used absolute-indexed instead, your program wouldn't work
|
|
right. It looks like it's making
|
|
Dave Lyons sure you wanted what you're getting. ga
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Coach
|
|
Coach101 Very inconsistent on ORCA/APW's part because......
|
|
Coach101 KLUDGE EQU $0093 LDA [KLUDGE],Y ....
|
|
Coach101 will get you an Illegal Operand Error... I get lots of those :)
|
|
ga
|
|
AFL Scott It's a level 8 error and the code produced looked ok.. just an odd
|
|
error I
|
|
AFL Scott guess.
|
|
AFL Scott That works.. but this is for a fast screen update routine, so that
|
|
doesn't
|
|
AFL Scott help.. But thanks.:)
|
|
AFA Gary J Allright, our next question is from VICTORYSFT. GA, VIC
|
|
VICTORYSFT The latest GSOS.h for APWC uses #defines to change prodos 8 recs
|
|
to GSOS recs.
|
|
VICTORYSFT Although I never use prodos 8 recs, I've just deleted them from
|
|
GSOS.h so that
|
|
VICTORYSFT the ORCA/C compiler accepts it.
|
|
VICTORYSFT Just to be on the safe side, however, I would like to keep in the
|
|
#defines.
|
|
VICTORYSFT I guess I could accomplish the same effect with typedefs, but does
|
|
anybody know
|
|
VICTORYSFT a method of fixing GSOS.h using #defines?
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Matt
|
|
Matt DTS You've got the background a little muddled.
|
|
Matt DTS They're not P8 records, they're ProDOS 16 records. They're done
|
|
that way so that if you include
|
|
Matt DTS GSOS.h and not P16.h (or whatever), you don't have to append GS to
|
|
all the call names to get class
|
|
Matt DTS one GS/OS calls. If you include both, the conditional
|
|
pre-processor macros define all the
|
|
Matt DTS class one calls as "callnameGS" so you can make both class zero
|
|
and class one calls.
|
|
Matt DTS I don't have an answer to your problem, but that's why it happens.
|
|
GA.
|
|
VICTORYSFT I understand why its happening, but is there a fix?
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Coach
|
|
Coach101 If you #include both the old ProDos .h file and the new GSOS.h
|
|
file,
|
|
Coach101 then you could have a problem... I use the GSOS.h file a lot, and
|
|
have
|
|
Coach101 not had the problem you are experiencing (not with the latest
|
|
GSOS.h)...
|
|
VICTORYSFT I never use prodos.h, but the init files I use had it.
|
|
Coach101 Are you #include both headers, if so, drop the ProDos one... ga
|
|
VICTORYSFT I would still like the automatic conversion to GS recs from p16.
|
|
Coach101 Ok, bite the bullet and get rid of all usage of prodos.h
|
|
Coach101 done
|
|
AFA Gary J Thanks, Coach, Matt.
|
|
AFA Gary J Anymore questions this evening?
|
|
VICTORYSFT Anybody know why gsos.h uses #defines for this purpose?
|
|
Coach101 I dont
|
|
Matt DTS (don't wait for me; I don't know the background on that particular
|
|
case)
|
|
VICTORYSFT ok, thanks. GA
|
|
AFA Gary J (I'm not, Matt :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Is anyone writing programs out there? (why all the silence :)
|
|
AFL Scott I am. But don't really have any problems except for converting
|
|
from Merlin
|
|
AFL Scott to Orca. But then that's all by hand.:)
|
|
AFA Gary J Isn't there a conversion program for some of that stuff, Scott?
|
|
AFL Scott Yeah, but they blow away labels.. labels are essential in this
|
|
code (that's
|
|
AFL Scott rather poorly commented).
|
|
AFA Gary J Labels are the ONLY comments, eh? :)
|
|
AFL Scott In a lot of places, yeah... :(
|
|
AFL Scott Plugging my stuff in has proved to be fun.
|
|
Mac Hater (oh, does the scsi upgrade [gs/os v3.02] fix the problem with
|
|
SFTools and
|
|
Mac Hater duplicate filenames?)
|
|
Matt DTS No. That's a resource manager problem, and there is no resource
|
|
manager upgrade included.
|
|
Coach101 I need an opinion on a rather involved issue....
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok, Coach, what's your issue?
|
|
Coach101 Internet addresses (of TCP/IP fame) use addresses that are 32 bits
|
|
in length.
|
|
Coach101 On the network, all bytes are in big endian order (i.e., the
|
|
opposite of
|
|
Coach101 IIgs order). Now most of the time one thinks of an IP address as
|
|
d1.d2.d3.d4
|
|
Coach101 where each d is one of the bytes of the 32 bits. On a TCP/IP
|
|
implementaion
|
|
Coach101 for the IIgs should one keep an internet address in inverse order
|
|
(as a long)
|
|
Coach101 or should I keep it in big endian order (sort of like char[4]).
|
|
It really
|
|
Coach101 does not make a technical difference of any magnitude, but every
|
|
day I change
|
|
Coach101 my mind on which is "more correct". Does anyone have an opinion?
|
|
ga
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Scott
|
|
AFL Scott As long as it doesn't affect the masking of the address any and
|
|
communication
|
|
AFL Scott is still possible with other nodes, then just comment the way you
|
|
store the
|
|
AFL Scott address.
|
|
AFL Scott done.
|
|
AFA Gary J (I think it wouldn't matter as long as you documented whatever
|
|
you chose)
|
|
VICTORYSFT I'd go with MSB first, in case you ever decided to port to another
|
|
system. GA
|
|
VICTORYSFT (long rather than char)
|
|
Coach101 But it is a user inteface issue... Does a using programmer (one
|
|
who calls
|
|
Coach101 the device driver) care? Porting, sort of out of the question for
|
|
a
|
|
Coach101 IIgs device driver :)
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Scott
|
|
AFL Scott Then if it's an established standard, stick with it. It might
|
|
make a nodes
|
|
AFL Scott heard entry and netaddr easier for the programmer of those
|
|
things.
|
|
AFL Scott done.
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, VICTORYSFT
|
|
VICTORYSFT If you're also including the programmer's interface (C routines,
|
|
etc), then I
|
|
VICTORYSFT think that most C people would prefer a long to an array of
|
|
ints.
|
|
VICTORYSFT In this case, keeping portability in mind would make sense. :)
|
|
VICTORYSFT GA
|
|
VICTORYSFT (array of char, I meant)
|
|
Coach101 Ok, thanks for the input..... I can will mull it all over....
|
|
Coach101 ga
|
|
AFA Gary J Any other questions this evening?
|
|
AFA Gary J GA, Scott
|
|
AFL Scott Coach... are you trying to do what I think you're trying to do?
|
|
AFL Scott If so... go for it!:)
|
|
Coach101 I am probably DOING what you think I am doing..... IP
|
|
communications between
|
|
Coach101 two cooperating IIgs's should occur this evening..... Had to
|
|
break
|
|
Coach101 the debugging session to attend... ga
|
|
Mac Hater layman terms? :)
|
|
Tamira IP??
|
|
AFA Gary J (protocol off)
|
|
Mac Hater quick, we need a coach translator.
|
|
AFL Scott Sounds great! Will you try to do it with live nets (ie,
|
|
non-GS/GS)?
|
|
Coach101 Scott, yes.... The design goal is complete compatibility with
|
|
the MacTCP
|
|
Coach101 implemention (which really means KIP compatibility). So if you
|
|
have a
|
|
Coach101 DDP/IP gateway (e.g. Kinetics FastPath), then you can get from
|
|
LocalTalk
|
|
Coach101 to EtherNet. From EtherNet, you can get where ever in the US you
|
|
wish... ga
|
|
AFL Scott That's splendid, Coach! Something like that is really needed.
|
|
What do you
|
|
AFL Scott think the speed will be?
|
|
Coach101 That is the BIG Q.... Hopefully I will have some answer
|
|
shortly...
|
|
Coach101 It is all in assembler, and I have tried to pay attention to the
|
|
code
|
|
Coach101 that is in "tight" places so I hope to be in the neighborhood of a
|
|
Mac+
|
|
Coach101 TCP/IP is a very popular Local Area Networking standard. Just
|
|
about
|
|
Coach101 any workstaion you buy will have a TCP/IP implementation with, or
|
|
available,
|
|
Coach101 for it. Additionally, there is a national network (the InterNet)
|
|
that runs
|
|
Coach101 on TCP/IP. Have TCP/IP, and a gateway to the world, would allow
|
|
a IIgs
|
|
Coach101 to do, and interact with, lots of things... done
|
|
AFL Scott Keep us posted! This is really exciting!:) Are you including
|
|
sockets, too?
|
|
Dave Lyons (Very cool!)
|
|
Mac Hater would you need something like appleshare or just a modumb?
|
|
Coach101 Now you know why the flurry of DTS questions Dave :)
|
|
Matt DTS Well, we just naturally assumed you were doing something way cool
|
|
or we would have given you
|
|
Matt DTS bogus answers. :)
|
|
Dave Lyons (Actually I think he pretty much told us what he was doing
|
|
anyway.)
|
|
Matt DTS "Sure...go ahead and disable interrupts permanently. Why would
|
|
AppleTalk mind?"
|
|
Coach101 I will be back with more detailed "scheduling" questions Matt
|
|
:)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
Matt DTS <this is all a JOKE, incidentally>
|
|
AFL Scott New hardwar... I can see it now!:)
|
|
Coach101 ARe you sure Matt, sounded familiar to me :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
AFL Scott Matt... and you wondered about 19.2 k baud modems!:) LOL!:)
|
|
AFL Scott Coach.... how are you controlling the address of the node? Just a
|
|
question.
|
|
Coach101 Via a CDev Scott. Eventually you will get two options
|
|
Coach101 1) Pick your address 2) if you have a DDP/IP gateway supporting
|
|
KIP
|
|
Coach101 then you can have the DDP/IP gateway dynamically assign an address
|
|
for
|
|
Coach101 you...
|
|
Coach101 I am still chasing one that looks like it is headed for a 2300
|
|
posting
|
|
Coach101 to AIIDTS... Fireing off an Nbp LookUp from AppleTalk timer
|
|
completion
|
|
Coach101 routine is giving me a bit of a problem (returns $8888 in A, but
|
|
ResultCode
|
|
Coach101 looks like it is virgin {I preset it to $00FF}). If I dont find
|
|
it in my
|
|
Coach101 code this evening you will get it in the morning :)
|
|
AFL Scott Scary thought... news on a GS... direct from uunet... Newsreaders
|
|
for the GS..
|
|
AFL Scott Coach... really neat possibilities there.
|
|
AFL Scott Super large hard disks... people flipping out when they see their
|
|
drives
|
|
AFL Scott accessing for no reason that they know about... Great!!!!
|
|
AFL Scott Coach, seriously.. I wish you the best!
|
|
|