3005 lines
149 KiB
Plaintext
3005 lines
149 KiB
Plaintext
ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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³ The Fidonet HOLYSMOKE Frequently Asked Questions List ³
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³ Created by David Rice ³±±
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³ Updated, maintained and posted by C. J. Henshaw and Coridon Henshaw ³±±
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³ Last Revised 06 Apr 11995 - Revision 666.012 - Hail Satan! ³±±
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³ ³±±
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³ Compilation Copyright 1995 Coridon Henshaw. All rights reserved. ³±±
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³ Individual quotations remain the property of their respective owners.³±±
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³ Free license for intra-HOLYSMOKE duplication and distribution. ³±±
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³ DUPLICATION OR DISCLOSURE TO NON-HOLYSMOKE PARTICIPENTS PROHIBITED. ³±±
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ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ±±
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±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±
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Comments from the FAQ keepers:
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The two ones in the header are not a typo.
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The copyright isn't a joke; I don't want to have drooling fundies at
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my door because of this document.
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Before anyone asks, no, I didn't get a batch of really old mail for all
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these additional quotes. They've been sitting in my 'Add to FAQ' file
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(yes, that's the filename) since the begining of March.
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Disclaimers:
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This product warps space and time in it's temporal and spacial
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location. Do not expose to antimatter. Will not block gunfire. Do not
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ignite. Do not eat. Definitions of words may vary.
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Quote of the issue:
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"Welcome to Holysmoke. That is probably the last nice thing I will ever
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say to you. Such is life." - George Rudzinski
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Quotes:
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"Welcome to the lovely world of HolySmoke! Watch out! The sugar-coating
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you now wear will probably wear off before long. It doesn't take very
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long, here. We're the Comet Cleanser of religion." - Questor Thews
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"We're not here to discuss religion, we're here to be disgusted by it." -
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Gwen "Gwenny the Pooh" Todd
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"Some parents, primarily fundamentalist Christians, would like the schools
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to teach their particular moral values. Those values are not necessarily
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shared by everyone." - D Mc Intire (talk.origins)
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"Wrong! I'm the fucking antichrist. Bow down slave!" - Ryan Shaw
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"You must suffer from some unknown mental condition, Andy. Throughout
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your posts you seem to equate liberalism with people who you consider
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"evolutionists[sic]." Liberalism, and conservatism for that matter are
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both political theories and have very little to do with whether or not
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one is considered an "evolutionist[sic]" by you. Wait, on the other hand
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most dumbass rednecks seem to be conservative. Shit, I take that back.
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Even a redneck isn't that stupid." -RS
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"I feel sorry for you, 'cause when the END comes, you are going to be one
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of those crying for the rocks and mountains to fall on you to hide you
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from God's glory. You will finally fall on your face and worship the One
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that created ALL, and then you will not have a chance. A carpenter was
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not elected as God, not by anyone of this world. You will know, one day
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that God wanted you to follow Him and THEN it will be too late. I have
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pity for you, for as you are speaking now, you are lost. You can believe
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whatever you want to, God gave you that choice, and you choose to follow
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the devil. May God have mercy on your soul." - Greg Waggy
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"If you are from an area where gays aren't bashed you wont be afraid to
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experiment if you want." - Jeff Androsac
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"YOU AREN'T BORN GAY!!! I DON'T CARE WHAT HOMOSEXUALS SAY, THEY CHOOSE
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TO BE GAY. AND THEY MADE THE WRONG CHOICE, SO HELL AWAITS THEM!" - JA
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"The Church is very tolerant, as is proven by God not sending a lightening
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bolt to fry those who blaspheme in the manner which the ULC does -
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particularly by taking something which God and millions of men hold sacred,
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and then attempting to make a joke of it, belittling it, and smearing it
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with every type of ridicule you can think of." - Fr. Lee Mc Colloster
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"It is nice to rember, when people are so foolish, one day soon every knee
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will bow and every mouth will confess Jesus as Lord!!!" - Hampie Mcdonald
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"A.I.D.S. was actually a GAY disease until the gay scum community infected
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the NORMAL world!" - Dale A. Cook [ed brain]
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"Key words: "we want". Instead of making demands, why not try working to
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those ends? Preferably without shotguns." - Marty Leipzig
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"Coming from a person who can see through a keyhole with both eyes open,
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I just consider the source." - ML
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"I think you're anti-science, anti-intellect and anti-logic. The mere
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fact that you're a Xtian to boot really does nothing other than label you
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with the type of superstition with which you feel most comfortable." - ML
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"Read up on what you rant about; perhaps then you won't come across as
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such a blightered moron. Perhaps." - ML
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"Of course it just seems that way you to you as you dwell in that
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paranoid fetid martyred delusion you call a life. Judges and school
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administrators are there to protect the populace from the Neofascist,
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hate-mongering, right-wing, ignorance inculcating group of Fundamentalist
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liars who try to pawn off their own fallacious view of narrowly dogmatic,
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and hallucinatory, morality as science. Against that we must be ever
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vigilant. We cannot again allow the armies of the night, clad in their
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tawdry Bible passages and threadbare beliefs, to usurp what they can never
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attain justifiably; however they may lie, cheat or swindle." - ML
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"I interact just fine with fellow human beings. What has yet to be
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established is that you are human." - George Rudzinski
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"I have no problems with my self esteem. I don't need any imaginary
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friends to get me through life." - GR
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"Fundies are dazed and confused. Like a duck hit on the head." - GR
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"And nobody considers you to be stupid. You have shown that you are. No
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need to get pissed at us because you decide to demonstrate that you are
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stupid." - GR
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"So don't practice sex. The gene pool won't miss your participation." - GR
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"So me blowing your head off is okay? I'm beginning to see that such a
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wound wouldn't be fatal." - GR
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"Mark 16: 15-19. If you have the faith I have the cure." -GR
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"Well God don't talk to me. And until you cough up the chemical formula
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for the pills sitting on my monitor, God don't talk to you." - GR
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"Hardly. My heathen premise is that screwing my wife on a Sunday morning
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has top priority over wasting time listening to some snake-oil salesmen in
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what ever church you wish to pick." - GR
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"I so love to see Christians disagree. Why don't we lock the two of you in
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a room with a loaded gun and the Bible? And the one that walks out alive
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gets to be the "True" christian." - GR
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"When you are on fire, no matter how many times you scream you are not on
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fire, it doesn't put the flames out." - GR
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"I personally believe religion is a mind killer and the most evil thing
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that one man has ever foisted on another." - GR
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"Many religious people think I'm the anti-Christ. I guess that would
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qualify as an affiliation." - GR
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"I am compelled to reply to this discussion. As a Christian, I feel that
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people who are Gay or Lesbian are children of God, and that they like us
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are loved by God. There is no mention to my knowledlge in either the Old
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Testament or the New Testament that Homosexuality is accursed by God
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whatsoever. Therefore, there is no Moral position based on the Bible in
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Christianity which condemms it. True, there is no position either which
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blesses it as well. Homosexuality exit, it is neither good or bad, as
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these are our own values being imposed on it, and as such reflect our own
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fears or ignorance. For instance, in the last 30 years Blacks, and Women
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have achieved a level of equality unheard of centuries before, and what is
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more true is that taking away their advances is blasphemous, and
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unconiousable. Gay people are no different than you or I, they have
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families that care for them, they work and contribute to our society
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greatly. To deny them equal rights under the law, and morally, would be
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the same as stepping back into time when tyrants ran the world and people
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different from them were put to the sword. Any attack on Gay people is
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just plain homophobia, and disguising it as morally wrong because the Rev.
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Jerry Falwell(for example) condems it, is just plain stupidity. Gay people
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want acceptance and respect as citizens, brothers, sisters, mothers, and
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fathers, friends, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. I am glad that we live in a
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age when people are shaking off old irrational fears and bigotry, even
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though we have a long way to go before we can build a society, and world
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based on love and respect. I just hope I will see it in my lifetime." -
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John Oliver
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"I advocate the murder of no one. However, I _do_ advocate referring to an
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abortionist doctor as an infant murdering, satan-led monster, masquerading
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as a doctor of medicine. Reason: He is one." - "Lon S. Mabon"
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"Preston, you should know that when a person is saved (born again) they
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become a new person in Christ. New means you start from the beginning. As
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in Baby.." - David (2' 5") Cupp.
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"Argument from popularity. There was a time when a hundred percent of the
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world's population thought the world was flat (if they thought about it at
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all). Did the make the world flat? Hardly! It make a hundred percent of
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the people stupid, and nothing more." - Marilyn Burge
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"Take your bible banging and shove it where the sun don't shine. It is a
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farce and totally unnecessary to a worthwhile, virtuous life, if only you
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were adult enough to know it." - MB
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"This brings some strange mental images to mind. First we have Christ
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blowing a column of fire out of his ass like a Saturn V. And then we have
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the Virgin Mary strapped onto the side of a booster like the Space
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Shuttle." -J.J. Hitt
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"A flawed argument at best: an abusive parent who is only beating their
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children can point at the parent who is sexualy abusing their children and
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say that there is nothing wrong with their own actions because someone
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else is doing worse. The sexually abusive parent can point to the parent
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who kills their children. The parent who kills their children in turn can
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point to someone who has killed more children than they have. If you only
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compare yourself to the worst examples you can find, of course you will
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always come out smelling like a rose. Please try to say something a
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little less stupid in your next reply." - JJH
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"The fundies that come through here start out by trying to display an
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attitude of thoughtful discussion. When they find that their mythologies
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are systematically disassembled and found to _be_ myths, coupled with the
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friction specifically designed to remove their sugar coating, the actual
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Christian under said sugar coating is exposed. And you can guess what's
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under it. I couldn't begin to enumerate those who specifically stated that
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they wished they could be around to watch the hurtful, educated HolySmoke
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participants `burn in 'hell.'" - Fredric Rice
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"'I am saved.' From what? Having to think for yourself?" - FR
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"Are you just naked, or are you naked for Jesus?" -FR
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"It's rather like having Freedie Kruger babysit children. Or asking Pee
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Wee Herman to teach human sexuality. Or asking Jim Bakker to be treasurer
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of the United States. Or asking Jim Jones to look over the refreshments."
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- FR
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"To believe in something without reason, that is to say, without reasonable
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grounds, is superstition, whether it is a belief that a black cat crossing
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your path will bring you bad luck, or God may pass judgement over your soul
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and send you to Hell for your evils." -Michael Gothreau
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"FUCK YOU ATHEIST! WHEN I FIND OUT WHERE YOU LIVE, I'LL DRIVE A PITCHFORK
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THROUGH THAT EMPTY HEAD OF YOURS, YOU ARROGANT PIG! THE GOD OF ABRAHAM
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DOES NOT STRIKE YOU BY LIGHTENING. SO GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ATHEIST
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ANCIENT GREECE BOOK OF FALSE GODS, AND WAKE UP. WHEN YOU DIE, YOU'RE GOING
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TO HELL, AND ARE GOING TO PERMANENTLY SUFFER DOWN THERE. AND I'LL BE
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LAUGHING AT ALL THE ATHEIST BASTARDS IN THIS ECHO, WHEN I'M UP IN HEAVEN.
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THERE IS NO WAY OUT OF HELL, JUST A WAY IN. AND THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE
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HEADED! OH I SEE. ALABAMA? YOU BETTER WATCH OUT. EVERYONE FROM THE
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SOUTH IS GUILTY OF INCEST. I GUESS THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WHY YOU ARE GOING
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STRAIGHT TO HELL! THE TERMINAL BBS? OH, I UNDERSTAND. YOU ARE TERMANILLY
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RETARTED, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE PRODUCT OF INCEST! HAVE A NICE DAY, LOSER
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BOY." - Christopher Calabrese [Christian family values]
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">> Not at all. Creationism has never been wrong. Why don't you just hang
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a sign around your neck that says `STUPID'?" -Styx Allum (The Moderator)
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"Debunking religions based upon hot air... is why this echo exists.
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Exposing hot air, although it cannot be seen by the naked eye, is a simple
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matter of having a theist speak into a balloon. When you pop the balloon,
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there is no more substance than what was there before. (Other than perhaps
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some saliva. Some theists froth more than others.)" - SA
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"Omnipresence precludes any "separation from the body of Christ". One
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cannot escape omnipresence. Therefor, your god would also have to exist
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within Satan." - SA
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"My clue, is Christ is coming, soon. Where are you going to be, when he
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comes to take the believers, in Heaven or hell." - Marguerite Kendall
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"If I was a satanist, humanist, or an atheist, it would be no problem. But
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because I stand for Christ, I get jumped on, name called, etc. There have
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been posts, on satanism, and humanism. But nothing happens, to the person
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who posts those messages. That person gets praise heaped upon him. But
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when I posted something on christianisty, adverse reaction happen." - MK
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"Perhaps you would send some [newspaper articles] my way...yeah...I know
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it's like the rest of your life...one big circus of lies." - Ron
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Stringfellow
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"One thing at a time. Answer the question, godling." - RS
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"Peter, I know what pi r2 is and have since the beginning. . . and I am
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sure that god took that into account." - RS
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"Faith in yourself will not help when the problem is beyond your control."
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- Steve Bedard
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"This ain't the harmony echo, dipshit." - Robert Curry
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"If the theists all shut up, the gods would be speechless." - RC
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"Funny how the gods tend to share the Political views of those who speak
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for them." - RC
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"Creation 'Science' is to science what Rap 'Music' is to music: a lot of
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noise and utterly incoherent." - David Rice
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"It is like arguing with a lump of shit. The longer one argues with shit,
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the sillier one appears, and the shit ain't listening." - DR
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"In response to entreaties from around the world, the leadership of Iran
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has announced that it will deal with Salman Rushdie in a more Christian
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fashion. But they have to find a place for the stake where it won't set an
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oil well on fire." - DR (It's a JOKE, bozo)
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"Any god who was elected a god by majority vote, like Jesus, must have a
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severe identity crisis." - DR
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"Speed kills. Wrapping your automobile around a concrete bridge pylon
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probably voids the warrantee." - DR
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"I think Ms. [Linda "UN at Waco"] Thompson has some valid points.
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Honestly." - DR
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"You're one complete pile of shit, and a bigoted one, too. Even your god
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damnable bible says "created man in his own image". And you have the
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audacity to say that an innocent child does not have the right to be saved
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by your god damned god?" - Dan Ceppa
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"I predict that you will take a breath of fresh air and actually take
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another. Hey!!! Why the fuck are you turning blue on me???? Well, one
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less fundy to woryy about......" - DC
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"Mankind didn't progress as far as it has by saying, "God said that men
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can't fly" but by breaking those laws and flying. What is going on around
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us now is an attempt to do just the same thing that the Romans used xianity
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for: To keep people ignorant, ignorant as to who they really are and are
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far they can go." - DC
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"You're incapable of any rational response, so why start now?" - DC
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"Please don't apologize. It makes me want to taunt you a second time." -
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Shelby Sherman
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"We treat fundies and apologists with appropriat counseling in this forum
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- Up the side of the head with the lug wrench of truth." - SS
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"By-the-way, Mary is still a slut and your precious Jesus is long dead and
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rotted in the grave. I've profaned your Savior, now what do you intend to
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do about it?" - SS
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"Tell me, why does God need to prove himself? He is based on belief. You
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are to believe, not to question! God performs miracles every day." - Steve
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Lew
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"Let's face it, matters of spirituality have to do with the spirit, not the
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intellect." - Carl Schulz
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"This echo is abomination. This echo is also filled with those who will
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one day bend their knee to Jesus Christ and call him Lord, whether they
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like it or not! And to think how much fun I'm gonna have fun watching you
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say it." - Martin Riley
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"The fact that a Jewish hasid lived in the 1st century CE in the country of
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either Galilee or Judaea, was very charismatic, a little brilliant and a
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little looney is not in question." - Simon Ewins
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"If God is "infinite and eternal and the Creator of all" then God must be
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the creator of evil. Since God created evil, the concept of evil must
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have, at least, passed through his mind and, further, since "whatever is
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good is good because it is consistent with his mind" the reverse must also
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be true. That is, "whatever is evil is evil because it is consistent with
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his mind". This makes God directly responsible for all of the evil that
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exists since it was "created from his mind". This requires that evil
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itself must be "consistent with his mind". So, is the mind of god
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predominantly good or evil? The amount of evil in the world (according to
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Christian theology) far outweighs the amount of good. This would indicate
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that God created more evil than he did good. This would indicate that the
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"mind" of God is predominantly evil. Why would one wish to worship a God
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who's "mind" is mostly evil? More interesting, however, is your
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anthropomorphizing of god. You assign God a "mind". How do you know that
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God has a "mind"?" - SE
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"Is this the depth of your naivete, or do we have more to look forward to?"
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- SE
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"Jesus made claims that have been proven to be wrong... Mark 9:1, Matthew
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16:28, Matthew 23:36, Luke 9:27, Matthew 24:21- 34, Matthew 10:23... all
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claiming foreknowledge of his return, all wrong. Gee, maybe he's dead."
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- SE
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"Lies are hard to keep straight in an era without sophisticated
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communications, it would seem." - SE
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"Are you looking to win the award for most stupid question? Setting aside
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for a moment that rocks are hard what would be the result of one dropping
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on your head? You can't 'set aside' an essential element of _anything_ and
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expect to find an answer that bears any relationship to reality." - SE
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"To accept as truth what the gospels (which were written after Paul's
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letters and were designed to support his ideas) say about Jesus, is to
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accept as truth what Goebbels says about Hitler. To accept as truth what
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Paul says about himself as supported by what the author of Acts says about
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Paul, is to accept what Hitler says about himself as supported by what
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Goebbels says about Hitler as truth." - SE
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"Christianity has nothing to be proud of. Any good that it may have done
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has been completely offset by the perpetuation of racial and religious
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hatred that it has fostered and encouraged." - SE
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"Paul only quotes Jesus twice. Why would that be if he is basing his
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entire theology on the life and work and resurrection of Jesus?" - SE
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"Anybody that brags about hearing voices in his/her head concerns me."
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- Steve Quarrella
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"We have no interest in "getting high" on your drugs, as our lives are just
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fine without having to be "saved" from the affliction you are selling. If
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getting high on Jesus is your bag, that's fine...so long as you do not ask
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others to inhale, we'll get along just fine. But if you tell people time
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and time again that they not only suffer from your affliction but also that
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they need your drug, you're going to be treated LIKE a drug dealer. You
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will be harassed to no end, cursed, spat upon, and every other
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inconvenience you can think of, until such a time that you take your drugs
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elsewhere." - SQ
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"God told me the Book of Mormon was true." - Conrad Knudson
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"Needless to say, the LDC's birth-rates are just rediculous... I'm for
|
|
compulsary sterilization, muh-self." - Jeff Freeman
|
|
|
|
"I missed being god by one vote!" - Odin
|
|
|
|
"Ciya is a blasphemous tool of your cunning." - Jesse Jones
|
|
|
|
"What you call a refusal to answer was a refusal to respond" - JJ
|
|
|
|
"When we believe that our individual will is the superior force in the
|
|
cosmos we deny the harmony which creation itself seeks. Jesus's struggle
|
|
in Gesthemane shows us that there is a will to be served beyond our own
|
|
self-interests. . ." - JJ
|
|
|
|
"BUT... if I told you that 1+1=1, as idiotic as it seems, until I am
|
|
proven wrong, I am right." - Zach Webb
|
|
|
|
"Did you ever see 'Capricorn One,' the movie? O.J. Simpson was the star.
|
|
Proved the entire government space program is a hoax. They're finally
|
|
going after O.J. because he helped unmask the space hoax." - Charles
|
|
Johnson, president of the Flat Earth Research Society International
|
|
[Shamelessly snagged from Usenet]
|
|
|
|
"My my, I have the false Christian scum (and their infidel, reprobate
|
|
brethren), the Sodomites and the general filth of FidoNet all ganging up on
|
|
me." - Steve Winter
|
|
|
|
"Aids cures queers." - SW
|
|
|
|
"I wish I was their to light the ovens." - William Stone
|
|
|
|
"Do you imagine that sexuality began with mammals? Cockroaches are male
|
|
and female, as you would notice if you paid any attention to your
|
|
congregation." - Don Martin
|
|
|
|
"And they're the ones who keep saying to us "why are you so ANGRY?" At
|
|
least I am not so angry that I have to deny rights to other people out of
|
|
hand." - DM
|
|
|
|
"Fundies can only be secure in their faith when everybody agrees with
|
|
their idiotic notions; therefore they feel impelled to convert whom they
|
|
can and shoot the rest in the back." - DM
|
|
|
|
"It isn't all that bad: they are only required to love their neighbor "as
|
|
themselves". Given the degree of self-loathing we see demonstrated by
|
|
christians around here (if it were not for the existence of god, I would
|
|
be committing murder, arson and rape on a daily basis), they probably
|
|
already love their neighbors as they do themselves without working up a
|
|
sweat. That love, however, may leave something to be desired." - DM
|
|
|
|
"Who ignores the likes of Paul Hill, a committed Christian "trying to make
|
|
a difference"? Who ignores the various "Family" groups in Colorado and
|
|
Oregon, busy trying to drum homosexuals out of the human race? They are
|
|
certainly "trying to make a difference."Who ignores the Christians in
|
|
Kentucky who check `naughty' books out of the library and do not return
|
|
them? Who can deny that they are "trying to make a difference." Who
|
|
ignores the friendly folks in Virginia, overwhelmingly Christians, who seek
|
|
to place an admitted felon and perjurer, Oliver North, in the U.S. Senate
|
|
where he can work his magic on all of us? Are they not "trying to make a
|
|
difference." Who ignores the "stealth" candidates in California, who work
|
|
at getting elected to school boards by concealing their Christian agenda by
|
|
evasion, silence or outright lying, so that they can impose that agenda on
|
|
the young from a position of power. They, too, are "trying to make a
|
|
difference." I only wish we COULD ignore the Christians "trying to make a
|
|
difference," but we dare not turn our backs on the vile bastards." - DM
|
|
|
|
"Maggie's echo bombs of religious tracts probably violates the copyright of
|
|
some fundy without giving such credit, but piss on him--it's only a fundy,
|
|
after all." - DM
|
|
|
|
"It has long been my impression that most of you buzzards would not bother
|
|
to be christians if you did not suppose that heaven was composed of
|
|
bleacher seats facing hell." - DM
|
|
|
|
"But in India, something else is going on. Females are not valued. Only
|
|
males are. Wanna bet that when those boys end up competing for the only
|
|
unmarried girl in town that HER value won't soar? And theirs, at least so
|
|
far as the gene pool is concerned, will drop. Such gender-specific
|
|
abortion is an excellent way to reduce the overall population, but it
|
|
doesn't really begin to operate until the next generation." - DM
|
|
|
|
"I do not expect, of course, that my ridicule will make fundies think--
|
|
they appear to be pretty well proof against that horror--but it may have
|
|
that effect on the real audience around here, the silent lurkers who have
|
|
not yet given their minds over to the Swaggarts, Robertsons and Falwells."
|
|
- DM
|
|
|
|
"Certainly, and than am I: however, he specified "fundemental Christian",
|
|
which DOES rather drain the pool of available intellect." -DM
|
|
|
|
"Well for all of you who criticize Mr. Robertson, I can say this. Judge
|
|
yourself before judging others. You might make fun of us fundies now, but
|
|
we are mobilizing spiritually, politically, and to what worries you the
|
|
most financially. We Christians are sick and tired of being accused of
|
|
wrongdoing and ridiculed. Lets face it, there are more of us than you.
|
|
And we intend to take back the Government that Christians founded. And cut
|
|
off your grants that supply some of you with the money to wage war on us.
|
|
Organizations like the Christian Coalition scare you and thats good cause
|
|
We are going to put you and the evolutionist garbage you try to push on us
|
|
on the run." - Joe Savelli
|
|
|
|
"Okay. I'll retract the story about the man who was arrested for praying
|
|
in the Florida restaurant. But only because you and others are hung up on
|
|
it. This should clear the way for what I really want to prove. That is
|
|
the Historicity of Jesus. So, Robert, you have my retraction for what it's
|
|
worth. (Not that it's a lie.)" - JS
|
|
|
|
"Oh well with homosexuals pounding on church doors and screaming to the
|
|
occupants "we want your children, we want your children". It just proves
|
|
my point that homosexuality is evil. Not to mention that it spreads
|
|
disease...." - JS
|
|
|
|
"Christian Coalitions membership in 1992 300,000. In 1993 900,000 and
|
|
still growing. We are going to invade all political and educational
|
|
institutions, take them back from the liberal/socialist invaders." -JS
|
|
|
|
"Libralism and humanism IS evil. Both are destined to fail" -JS
|
|
|
|
"I see now why Jesus said the Jews' father is the devil. Beware! The Jew
|
|
is the antichrist." - Keith Baxter / Larry Rollins / Gerald Norris / Jack
|
|
Roberts / Frank Waring
|
|
|
|
"If 'Jesus' does come to Earth- is it the first coming (as per Jewish
|
|
tradition), second (Xian), or third (Mormon)? I wonder- and I hope he
|
|
lands feet first on ALL televangelists. (Preying on fear sickens me!!!)" -
|
|
Rachael Roth
|
|
|
|
"Take that piece of paranoid drivel and, print it out, soak it in gasoline,
|
|
then shove it up your ass and light it. Have a nice day, motherfucker." -
|
|
C. J. Henshaw
|
|
|
|
"What you call senseless blathering is actually a very fun past time for
|
|
those of us who like shoving lit fireworks up fundies' assholes."
|
|
- Coridon Henshaw
|
|
|
|
"Matt, do you suppose incest is why we have fundamentalists?" - Liz
|
|
Saunders
|
|
|
|
"We already have the necessary proof - the Scriptures. God has already
|
|
told us what happened. Why do we need further proof?" - Derek Williams
|
|
|
|
"What scares the shit out of me is that here in southern Tennessee (and
|
|
probably many other areas) the psychological clinics are LINKING religious
|
|
beliefs and psychological well-being. That's kind of like giving someone
|
|
AIDS to cure sexual dysfunction." - Tim Bennett
|
|
|
|
"EH> [...] Btw, change your initials. they make you look canadian." -
|
|
Martin Goldberg
|
|
|
|
"Texas is much better than the State of the Perpetually Dead Elvis.
|
|
Jesus, the smell is atrocious. Did something die up there?" - MG
|
|
|
|
"The Theory of Gravity does not address these either. Am I to believe that
|
|
my computer will soon head for the ceiling?" - MG
|
|
|
|
"i read this. It is full of nice stories, emotional bullshit, and a host
|
|
of other devices that might fool a very stupid person. It is not,
|
|
however, evidence." - MG
|
|
|
|
"See you in Hell.... (I won't be there, but I'll be able to see YOU
|
|
there.)" - Doug Brewer
|
|
|
|
"Welfare is cancelled, all women come home (except single women who
|
|
obviously must support themselves somehow.) What happens? 1) A tremendous
|
|
amount of tax money is freed up. 2) Men fill the now vacant positions,
|
|
thus reducing or possibly eliminating unemployment. 3) Children have one
|
|
parent home all the time; thus they are raised by their parents instead of
|
|
daycare. I think the advantages of this are obvious. In contrast, look at
|
|
what we have instead...." - DB
|
|
|
|
"You do not understand the essence of Satan, or of Satanism. You do not
|
|
have to worship Satan to be a Satanist. Satanists believe that everyone is
|
|
their own God. You need only worship yourself, and you are practicing
|
|
Satanism." -DB
|
|
|
|
"First of all, innocence is subjective. Who is truly innocent? Just a
|
|
question... Second, anyone who ever died at God's hand (in the Bible) died
|
|
for a reason. Third, Christians view death as a beginning, not an end.
|
|
So, to die (say in a city that was destroyed by God's judgement) wouldn't
|
|
pose that big a problem for me. There isn't that much worth hanging around
|
|
here for, anyway." -DB
|
|
|
|
"Modern technology is merely evidence that h. sapiens sapiens is not all
|
|
irrevocably stupid and that progress is made in spite of our most earnest
|
|
efforts to forestall it at times." - Preston Simpson
|
|
|
|
"There's no convincing a mind that is not only closed but has been bricked
|
|
over and had steel plate welded in place over it." - PS
|
|
|
|
"Your god seems to fear questioning, and the authority figures in your
|
|
religion discourage questioning far more than they encourage it. Such is
|
|
a definite sign of an oppressive and dangerous organization." - PS
|
|
|
|
"If you take two lions and two sheep aboard the ark, it's a cinch bet that
|
|
the lions will probably eat the sheep or some other herbivore upon
|
|
release." - PS
|
|
|
|
"You've basically said to the world "I don't understand why some things
|
|
happen, so God must have done it!" That's silly. If you don't know why
|
|
something happened, try to find out. If you can't, leave it at that and go
|
|
on with your life." -PS
|
|
|
|
"I think you're full of shit. I wasn't in it for gain. I was in it
|
|
because I believed. I was in it because I had faith. And when my faith
|
|
was shaken to its foundation, nobody came to help, nobody answered my
|
|
prayers, nothing. Your God, if he exists, is the most callous deity to
|
|
ever be worshipped, bar none. And his followers exemplify this
|
|
beautifully." - PS
|
|
|
|
"We've explained it to you at least three times, in clear English. You
|
|
claimed a degree in English; I suggest that you return to the institution
|
|
that granted it and demand a refund, because it's for damned sure that you
|
|
didn't learn anything there." - PS
|
|
|
|
"How about people who just don't care? Bipolar thinking is ridiculous when
|
|
applied in this fashion to humanity, since life is not always a clear-cut
|
|
case of "us" against "them." Such thinking breeds paranoia, distrust,
|
|
animosity, and all sorts of unharmonious things. What would your god
|
|
think of that?" - PS
|
|
|
|
"`In God we trust' - David Koresh" - Sunjester
|
|
|
|
"Put THAT in your Bible and smoke it." - Stephen Green
|
|
|
|
"I find it strangely pleasing to know my thoughts and actions cause you so
|
|
much grief." - SG
|
|
|
|
"Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest."
|
|
- Jimmy Swaggart
|
|
|
|
"Describe, if you will, what kind of phony God you would come up with if
|
|
you were to create a phony God and start your own religion. Ask yourself
|
|
what kind of traits you'd *have* to give it. Visible or invisible? etc.
|
|
Then, compare the result to the popular Christian God." - Mike Prather
|
|
|
|
"The problem is that some folks are so open minded that their brains fall
|
|
out. Then some really bizaare ideas get stuffed into the opening, at which
|
|
time they slam and bolt the barn door after the horse has run off, and
|
|
never let anything else in or out. Then they come to Holysmoke and start
|
|
posting stuff about universal minds thinking with pilot waves and dead
|
|
presidents rising and orgasmic saviors and denying sunlight and quoting
|
|
winos like Hoyle and Schroeder." - "Hector Plasmic"
|
|
|
|
"He just reinterprets whatever's at hand to fit what he wants it to say,
|
|
carefully discarding any bits that get in the way as "parables" and then
|
|
reinterpreting them, too. Finally, ignore any more logical explanations
|
|
and conflicting facts, and -- voila -- instant fundy, just add flood water
|
|
and bake in hell to taste." - HP
|
|
|
|
"It's laughable, really. The fundies claim "gods exist!" When you ask
|
|
them if they have any evidence that gods exist, they eventually get around
|
|
to saying "no, but you can _sense_ that gods exist." When you ask them
|
|
for evidence for that statement, you usually get "I just know it." And
|
|
when you ask them how it is they "just know" you usually get "you can
|
|
_sense_ that gods exist."" - HP
|
|
|
|
"I'm sorry, Mikey, did you run across some evidence that xtianity is true?
|
|
Would you mind sharing it with us? Or are you just full of shit as
|
|
usual?" - HP
|
|
|
|
"Time: Here and now. Surviving members of David Koresh's Branch
|
|
Davidians report seeing David the Koresh, Lamb of God, alive and
|
|
preaching. They're widely regarded as nuts. The Enquirer and similar
|
|
yellow tabloids pick up the tale and begin printing stories about people
|
|
seeing the Koresh hither and yon performing miracles. The stories are
|
|
widely regarded as garbage -- except for a few ignorant souls who also
|
|
believe Elvis and JFK are still running around. A few years pass, the
|
|
stories of Koresh sightings still crop up from time to time. Henry
|
|
Kissinger has died, and John Prewett committed suicide rather than admit
|
|
he was a false prophet. The Branch Davidians stick to their story, saying
|
|
that the Koresh has ascended to heaven to be with God. They pick up
|
|
followers. The church grows slowly but steadily. People still think
|
|
they're nuts, but a few eyebrows are being raised. The fundamentalist
|
|
xtian televangelists begin screaming about false prophets and followers of
|
|
the devil when they mention the Koreshians. A few more years pass. Most
|
|
of the Branch Davidians have died of old age. Their followers, still
|
|
growing, set down the tales they've been told about the Koresh's
|
|
sacrificial death to atone for the sins of mankind and subsequent
|
|
resurrection and ascension to heaven and begin calling themselves
|
|
Koreshians. A prominent televangelist who'd been preaching against the
|
|
Koreshians is in an automobile accident; when he recovers, he claims to
|
|
have seen the Koresh and been converted (saved). He tours the country
|
|
preaching at Koreshian churches, howls his message over the airwaves.
|
|
Membership in the Church of Koresh jumps sharply as many people leave the
|
|
fundamentalist churches to become Koreshians. A few more years pass. The
|
|
televangelist, now an old man, is assassinated. Membership again jumps
|
|
sharply, spurred by his martyrdom. The stories set down years before are
|
|
assembled and appended to the King James bible (oddly, written using "thee"
|
|
and "thou"s). The stories contain contradictions and obvious fallacies, but
|
|
they're accepted as dogma by the Koreshians, who interpret over them and/or
|
|
call them "proof of the truth of the writings." Approximately two thousand
|
|
years pass -- it's 1995 AK (After Koresh). The Koreshian religion is held,
|
|
at least superficially, by 1/3rd of the world's 10 billion population
|
|
(there'd be a lot more people, but the Koreshians exterminated a lot of
|
|
heretics and unbelievers over a thousand years before during the Second
|
|
Dark Age). Mikey Hardy's descendant says, in a room full of atheists, "And
|
|
we have evidence that David Koresh rose from the dead." Most everyone
|
|
present considers him a nut, and farts in his general direction. Mikey's
|
|
descendant screams 'IS NOT!'" - HP
|
|
|
|
"Moreover, according to the fundies here, we're guilty until "saved." So,
|
|
to extend Kenny's "breaking the law" analogy, it'd need to be a law
|
|
against breathing, or some other activity that humans can't help doing.
|
|
In fact, I offer this analogy which seems much to the point: A king
|
|
declared that anyone breathing air not bought from the king's air bottling
|
|
plant would be thrown into the dungeon and tortured forever. The king
|
|
offered simple terms -- all you had to do to pay for your bottles of air
|
|
was fall to your knees, grovel a bit, and thank the king for giving you
|
|
air (the king had previously allowed the president of the air bottling
|
|
plant to rape and kill his daughter the princess to pay the price for
|
|
everyone's air, but actually she wore a full-body condom and faked her
|
|
death so she suffered very little if at all). Now, an atheist might say
|
|
that the king was full of shit and was damning his people by the thousands
|
|
for no reason at all, but a theist might say that the people were damning
|
|
themselves by refusing to partake in the king's almost-freely-given gift of
|
|
a bottle of air." - HP
|
|
|
|
"We don't hate you, little fundy. We feel sorry for you." -HP
|
|
|
|
"Occam's Razor cut your foot off again." -HP
|
|
|
|
"Now go shoot yourself. For Christ or not, it doesn't matter. Don't
|
|
forget to repent first." -HP
|
|
|
|
"What an assinine, baseless assertion. Just because Mikey has no evidence,
|
|
you must be intentionally refusing to believe him." -HP
|
|
|
|
"Are you allergic to the truth or something, Mikey?" -HP
|
|
|
|
"Fundy motto: no sense makes sense." -HP
|
|
|
|
"Yep. I agree. All bibles should be put under rocks. Big rocks. In the
|
|
ocean. On another planet." - Brian C. Kolacy
|
|
|
|
"Women do have a place in God's kingdom...BELOW that of men." - Jeff Pruett
|
|
|
|
"Back to the talking snakes and Adam & Eve again, eh Jeff? The entire
|
|
story is pure mythology as you well know but won't admit. It has no more
|
|
validity than the myths about Zeus, Hercules or Mithras."
|
|
- John Musslewhite
|
|
|
|
"So why don't you guys kill yourselves and get the hell outta our hair?"
|
|
- David Worrell
|
|
|
|
"I'm beginning to think Mormon churches have brain vacuums install in the
|
|
pews. The congregation comes in, sits down, and tubes are inserted up
|
|
their asses. Any unnecessary brain matter is then sucked out while they
|
|
listen rapturously to the sermon." - DW
|
|
|
|
"So you feel that it is our *duty* to bash gays in order to prevent
|
|
`experimentation'? You disgust me. Maybe we should beat the hell out of
|
|
Christians in order to prevent people from experimenting with
|
|
Christianity?" - DW
|
|
|
|
"I'm prejudiced against bigots, fascists, tyrants, and idiots. It just so
|
|
happens that many Christians fall into one or more of these categories."
|
|
- DW
|
|
|
|
"I am all too willing to believe that you're just as stupid as you come
|
|
across on this echo." - DW
|
|
|
|
"Do you take groveling lessons or does it come naturally to you?" - DW
|
|
|
|
"Atheism is MORALLY BANKRUPT because, as Sartre and Nietzsche have
|
|
demonstrated, without God as the universal reference point to distinguish
|
|
good from evil, there are no moral absolutes. Man becomes the measure of
|
|
all things, including his own ethics and morality." - Roger Griffith
|
|
|
|
"I agree with you there legislating faith is like trying to legislate
|
|
agains racism it sounds nice but it just don't work..." - Robert Rice
|
|
|
|
"God is Powerful...NO other so-called "GOD" could stand one chance against
|
|
My Powerful God....Bite me All you LOw-Life Non-Christians!!"
|
|
- Jason Bridges
|
|
|
|
">> WE AS CHRISTIANS HAVE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THE BASIC TRUTH OF CHRIST AND >>
|
|
HAVE DEVELOPED OUR OWN THINKING.
|
|
|
|
Great Scott! Some people are thinking for themselves. Where could such
|
|
heretical behavior lead!" - Unknowns
|
|
|
|
"What I'm doing is typing truth. It is simple to ridicule and ask for
|
|
evidence of something someone does not believe, I could take the same tact.
|
|
You cannot prove any theory, that's why they are known as theories. What
|
|
you offer is not debate. Look the word up in the dictionary. I am here to
|
|
say JESUS SAVES." - David Lewellyn
|
|
|
|
"I do not hate anyone. I recognize homosexuality for what it is. It is an
|
|
illness and depravity. At one time this was recognized as truth but as
|
|
homosexuals were thrust into the public eye by the AIDS epidemic and the
|
|
popular figures who came out of the closet, and the liberal climate created
|
|
by the press, homosexuality was labeled an "alternative life style". It is
|
|
"popularly believed" that a flight attendant from Canada introduced AIDS
|
|
into the U.S. According to researchers he had sex with several dozen men.
|
|
Other cases of AIDS did not show up until later among the non homosexual
|
|
populace." -DL
|
|
|
|
"No gay person could ever reproduce unless he were straight in some way." -
|
|
Ralph "The sky is blue!" Jansen
|
|
|
|
"Why can evolution be FACT when there is absolutely NOTHING backing it up?
|
|
... (Because this is science and in science there is no such thing as a
|
|
fact.)" - RJ
|
|
|
|
"If there is, then by definition evolution is most highly improbable since
|
|
the each species is *supposed* to die off after it evolves." -RJ
|
|
|
|
"As for 6000 years, there is quite a bit of evidence that supports that
|
|
idea. So, maybe he really isn't that stupid. Maybe he knows something you
|
|
don't." -RJ
|
|
|
|
"Some group has said that they actually discovered the ark, and that NASA
|
|
has gotten behind them on this 100%... Don't you dare quote me on
|
|
that..." -RJ
|
|
|
|
"I made a report to the class on Creation Vs. Evolution . . . You know who
|
|
won . . . Creation . . . evlution is too complicated!!!" - Russ Offord
|
|
[elipses in original]
|
|
|
|
"The magnetic field. Solid hydrogen is a superconductor, and Earth's
|
|
magnetic field continues to wane -- back then it would have been many,
|
|
many times stronger. And so on." - Leon Brooks
|
|
|
|
"You have no sense of humor. Typical atheist faire. Learn to live with it
|
|
(your dark dismal world, that is, humorless, Godless, hellbound schnook)"
|
|
- John Prewett
|
|
|
|
"May Jesus continue to let you live. Long enough to get your head out of
|
|
your ass." -JP
|
|
|
|
"This echo is going to be used to greatly spread faith in Christ. There
|
|
are going to be some fanatic HolySmoke anti-Christers that are going to be
|
|
transformed into rabid Christers. - JP
|
|
|
|
"I predict / prophecy in Jesus name that: John F. Kennedy will publicly
|
|
reappear, amaze the world, take world power, and is in fact the "beast"
|
|
of the Revelation." - JP
|
|
|
|
"Some HolySmokers are putting God on trial. Therefore God exist." - JP
|
|
|
|
"`god' _does_ exist. Because the rules of physics always stay the same."
|
|
- Matt Unterberg
|
|
|
|
"I'm easily amused, just give me a gun and a field full of fundamentalists"
|
|
- Unknown
|
|
|
|
"(sorry about that - this is my blatant attempt to get a quote in the
|
|
HOLYSMOKE.FAQ) <g>" - Mike Perry
|
|
|
|
"Actually, it is, Kelsey. Theistic evolution is not the same as
|
|
atheistic-materialistic evolution. Yet, for some reason, you choose to
|
|
use theistic evolution as a rebuttal to my statement that "natural
|
|
atheistic-materialistic macro-evolution is dependant on life starting
|
|
via a naturalistic-atheistic-materialistic mechanism for biochemical
|
|
evolution." I'll explain the difference to you. Atheistic-materialistic
|
|
evolution is characterized by the belief that there is no Creator G-d,
|
|
that all that we observe in the universe is the result of the laws of
|
|
nature acting on matter and energy, plus random and/or chance encounters
|
|
of matter/energy, over a period of approximately 11-14 Billion years. In
|
|
order for Atheistic-materialistic evolution to be true, each stage of the
|
|
evolution of the universe (From the origin of the Big Bang, to the origin
|
|
of particles, to the origin of stars and planets, to the origin of life
|
|
from non-life, to the origin of the species) must have developed via the
|
|
laws of nature acting on matter and energy, plus opportune random
|
|
encounters of matter/energy, over a period of approximately 11-14 Billion
|
|
years. If any any one of these stages we can demonstrate that just one of
|
|
these steps could not have occurred in this manner, then we have
|
|
disproved Atheistic-materialistic evolution. The Atheist world view falls
|
|
apart." - Arthur Biele
|
|
|
|
"Well, I'm 23, though I've had people mistake me for 30. It's my aura of
|
|
wisdom and maturity, not my receding hairline. Really it is."
|
|
- Aaron Boyden
|
|
|
|
"No. However, there is life before death. It probably deserves more of
|
|
your attention than you've been giving it." -AB
|
|
|
|
"And you say I'm in a "death cult"?? "Mass starvation"?? Point "*.666"?
|
|
You can't use "666", your an atheist, you don't believe in those things,
|
|
remember?? Remember, the Bible isn't true, therefore the Anti-christ and
|
|
his number 666 is a myth and doesn't exist? For someone who doesn't
|
|
believe the Bible, you sure model yourself and your symbols after what's
|
|
in it, even if it's the "bad guys". Of course the "bad guys" don't exist
|
|
if the Bible isn't true." - Phillip Windell
|
|
|
|
"You see, without God, a person can become good, or noteworthy, or
|
|
famous, or do good things such as heal the sick, teach the ignorant,
|
|
protect the young, and all for the simplest reasons or no reason at all
|
|
other than the personal happiness derived from such actions. However, if
|
|
there _is_ a God, then there is no reason to become a doctor, as God
|
|
either wants that person sick or God would cure him. There is no reason
|
|
to teach the ignorant, as with a snap of the fingers, God could impart
|
|
any degree of knowledge or wisdom to that person and since that hasn't
|
|
happened, God must want that person ignorant. If God does exist, there
|
|
is absolutely no reason whatsoever to do anything for anyone. Anything
|
|
you could do to help someone is meaningless as God could help them so
|
|
much better if He wanted them to be helped. Anything you could do to
|
|
better yourself becomes pointless as God could have done it for you if He
|
|
wanted you to be a better person. Indeed, if God did exist, one could
|
|
only do one of two things: either totally ignore God and any of His
|
|
actions, or become a totally mindless slave to God's word. Either way,
|
|
the result is the same: complete meaninglessness to anything and
|
|
everything one does." - Kelsey Bjarnason
|
|
|
|
"You seem to be very hot on what the Bible says; I find it hard to believe
|
|
that anyone who cannot write a simple sentence correctly is actually
|
|
capable of ascertaining the deeper meanings of anything more complex than
|
|
a matchbook cover." - KB
|
|
|
|
"One might look at how the Christians fare in here. Do you have any
|
|
idea how often we have one come in and the first thing they do is start
|
|
whining about the language in here? How would you like it if someone
|
|
went to your house and told you how to speak there? Of course, the next
|
|
step for the average Christian here is to start posting all the "great
|
|
truths" which "prove God"; again, without having bothered to read enough
|
|
mail to realize that _every_ argument they propose has been done to
|
|
death already. No, they insist upon believing that in all of human
|
|
history, they and they alone have the final proof of God. As often as
|
|
not, the next stage is when they start defining terms to suit
|
|
themseleves. "Atheism" means "anti-God". "Evolution" involves the Big
|
|
Bang. And of course, they almost invariably end up resorting to such
|
|
silliness as telling us that we "hate God" because we fear "it might be
|
|
true" or that "deep in our hearts we know God is real". The point here
|
|
is this: the Christians are treated with the respect they earn. For
|
|
most, this means treating them like a spoiled and slightly retarded
|
|
six-year-old. For the odd few, it means calm and rational discussion.
|
|
It is _entirely_ up to the Christian how he is treated in HolySmoke."
|
|
- KB
|
|
|
|
"You go out of your way to insist that atheism is a religion, which can
|
|
be for no purpose but to inflict your personal mindset on those who are
|
|
not so afflicted." - KB
|
|
|
|
"If you believe it, you don't know it. If you know it, you don't need
|
|
to believe it. Since you obviously haven't a clue one way or the other,
|
|
why should anyone listen to what you say?" - KB
|
|
|
|
"They are Christians of Borg, they have been assimilated. They will
|
|
speak no opinions of their own, only those approved by the Christian Borg
|
|
Collective. To think for oneself is to risk eternal punishment."
|
|
- Thomas Mccullock
|
|
|
|
"No shit, Sherlock. But that isn't the case, and there are plenty (too
|
|
many) heterosexual breeders in this world that are keeping this planet
|
|
(over)populated. What does it matter if a small percentage of the world's
|
|
population isn't reproducing? Goat knows we don't need any more people
|
|
breeding like rabbits in this world..." - Drew Webber
|
|
|
|
"Remember the man arrested in the Florida restaurant? He was praying that
|
|
his noodles would stop multiplying, but a Satan-powered JFK flew out of
|
|
the stratosphere on a bear that couldn't catch fish and arrested him.
|
|
MISTER Kissinger stood on a milk crate of flaming foetuses and tried to
|
|
prove it with every opening bud, but the solid hydrogen mentioned in Luke
|
|
16:31 destroyed his hard disk fourteen days later and erased the Culinary
|
|
History of Aviation. He goes on trial December 1." - Jason Rosendale
|
|
|
|
"First off I am not religious, I am a Christian. Second I did not give up
|
|
on it, I refused to take part in a mock trail of God." - Kenneth Mcabee
|
|
|
|
"What your missing David, is the most bible believing Christains do not
|
|
question God. Why does he require blood for the forgiveness of sin? What
|
|
does it matter? It does, the bible says it, we believe it." - KM
|
|
|
|
"You still haven'g gotten have you? Someone who believes in the Bible also
|
|
believes that you do not need evidence, but rather faith." - KM
|
|
|
|
"First if the Christians were doing thier job right noone would die never
|
|
hearing the "Good News". If they did not hearing then by my bible I have to
|
|
say that they are condemned. And that we the Christians did not do as we
|
|
were commanded." - KM
|
|
|
|
"you a answer on your question simply due to the fact that I am not God,
|
|
and do not have the capability to punish my kids for eternity. I cannot
|
|
give you an answer, I do not know what I would do if I could punish them
|
|
for eternity." - KM
|
|
|
|
"Just because I am willing to debate Christianity does not mean that I am
|
|
here to learn any truth contrary to my beliefs." - KM
|
|
|
|
Let me put it this way, even if I agreed with your statement that God is
|
|
an unrepentant barbarian, he is still God. I still have the choice to
|
|
make, either I believe in him and go to heaven, or I don't and go to hell.
|
|
With those two choice, I don't care if God is the most hateful thing ever
|
|
created, I still would not want to go to hell, and I would still believe
|
|
in him." - KM
|
|
|
|
"God will be coming soon. He will tryumph over any gods that other people
|
|
have made. Like the god of money...etc. In the end you will be judged by
|
|
him. He will make you accountable for every thing you did." - Alex Sousa
|
|
|
|
"You can't blame them. They can't think. They are a result of a
|
|
mechanistic organization of matter. They don't have thoughts any more
|
|
than a computer has thoughts. Their "thoughts" are nothing but
|
|
mechanistic processes. Hmmm, they probably don't even have
|
|
conciseness." - Andrew Cummins, refering to non-Christians.
|
|
|
|
"Hitler believed in big government. Hitler didn't believe that human life
|
|
had inherent value, thus he supported such things as abortion.
|
|
Considering many factors, Hitler seems a lot like a modern American
|
|
liberal." - AC
|
|
|
|
"Don't be a liberal dupe. Even most heterosexuals with AIDS 'earned'
|
|
it... but it's still is a fag disease." - AC
|
|
|
|
"Then maybe the poor should either avoid being poor or avoid behaving in
|
|
a way that makes them feel a need to avoid responsibility with something
|
|
they can't afford." - AC
|
|
|
|
"She prayed and asked (*demanded* - she's a tough lady) for the life of
|
|
this little one back. After 15 minutes or so a crowd was gathered (you
|
|
can picture it) and she saw some police out of the corner of her eye
|
|
starting to approach. But the people pressed around her so, that the
|
|
police couldn't get through. After a half hour or more of continuing to
|
|
pray the baby gave a sneeze and came back to life." - Peter Sawyer
|
|
|
|
"That's a lot better than denying the Truth just because you're afraid of
|
|
it. The more I read from you and the others like you in this echo, the
|
|
more I know my faith is true. Thanks." - Tony Grisier
|
|
|
|
"Didn't you know that *we* are Satan?" - Gord Magill
|
|
|
|
"I know this is only second hand, but our local TV news did a two or
|
|
three part series on parents killing their own children. The incident in
|
|
Union was not as isolated as we would like to think and it may be a good
|
|
working hypothosis. I don't remember the statistics that they gave, but
|
|
the point was that the rate has been on a marked increase, beginning in
|
|
the mid 70s. Guess when Roe v. Wade came down. The news didn't provide
|
|
the corellation, history did. Now, I realize that its easy to lie with
|
|
statistics. Even when you have a corellation, that doesn't prove a
|
|
hypthosis, it merely supports it. If I can find the numbers I'll post
|
|
them soy we don't have to go on just my remembrance of the local news."
|
|
- David Hatfield
|
|
|
|
"I have never accepted the Ideal personally that gays have any rights and
|
|
i never will." - Don Ward
|
|
|
|
"Heres my judgment ,you are a desolate little old man who's afraid to
|
|
leave your little xt/pc. I get on this "echo" because of all the fools
|
|
on it, but you live on this "echo"." - DW
|
|
|
|
"I think your under a lot of "STRESS". Maybe you need an _assistant
|
|
moderator_, one that would make this _echo_ appeal to all types of people.
|
|
Therefore I'll make a "kind" gesture of you letting me run this bias
|
|
_echo_ for a month or so. So I can help you achieve a respectable "echo",
|
|
for the good of all." - DW
|
|
|
|
"Adults do not allow others to speak their own minds in any fashon they
|
|
want, Ive not seen that anywhere. Adults do let Children ( somewhat)
|
|
learn the language but it has appeared to me thru many of your post that
|
|
you do have a good sense of language so I can only presume that you are
|
|
very much an adult." - John Reynolds
|
|
|
|
"... "How talk you, yes. That, do we. Idiot, fucking, you are.": Yoda"
|
|
- Tagline
|
|
|
|
"Considering the Christian views on abortion and assisted suicide, my
|
|
guess is that once you accept this "gift" of eternal life, you can never
|
|
give it back. Seems like you might be making a mistake that could
|
|
literally haunt you forever by accepting Jesus Christ as your personal
|
|
lord and saviour, especially since Christians seem to think that just
|
|
anything that is fun to do is a sin."
|
|
- "Captain Fuck"/Dan Baldwin/"Dr. James Robertson"
|
|
|
|
"`Aboard ship take thou the SEED of life' I am refering to the SEED of
|
|
all life of any species. Only one thing did NOAH need to take two of, on
|
|
the ARK, of EVERY living creature that walked upon the EARTH, and would
|
|
easily be able to do so with the technology of the -GODS-. Also buy
|
|
taking the SEED of life of every living creature he could get two of each
|
|
on that small ARK. The SEED of life being refered to is, GENES. The GENES
|
|
of a male and female of every creature would have accomplished the task
|
|
nicely, would it not? With this you no longer have an argument of not
|
|
enough room to house two of every creature, food to feed them for more
|
|
than 6 months, etc...." - Barry "Suspended Animation" Laminack
|
|
|
|
"He will not be there for you. If you have not accepted his lordship over
|
|
your life, then you are at war with him and he is at war with you. That
|
|
is not to say that he is not willing to forgive, but to stand in the place
|
|
of God's judgement is a fearful place to be. What is right and wrong?
|
|
Where does the idea come from? If you go by feelings, your feelings
|
|
change from day to day. Do your morals change from day to day? Without
|
|
God there is no right and wrong. There must be a reference point outside
|
|
of yourself upon which to base your value judgements. What is your
|
|
reference point? Without one you are incapable of determining for yourself
|
|
what is right and what is wrong." - Unknown fundi
|
|
|
|
Any evidence I have would be meaningless, because your point of view would
|
|
prevent the obvious conclusion. I cannot *prove* to you the existence of
|
|
God just as you cannot prove to me the non-existence of God. God has
|
|
proven himself to me through the power he has shown in changing my life.
|
|
Only the power of God can change a man's life and set him free from the
|
|
burden of sin. Not that any Christian will ever be sinless, but the
|
|
assurance of knowing the the penalty for your sin has been erased changes
|
|
your life completely. I cannot prove to you the existence of God, but if
|
|
you accept what he says about himself and about you in his Word the Bible,
|
|
then everything makes complete sense." - Timothy Hartley
|
|
|
|
"A recent court case acquitted Donald Napora of endangering the lives of
|
|
the public by knowingly having unprotected anal intercourse (otherwise
|
|
known as sodomy), while knowing he was HIV positive. Sodomy, once a crime
|
|
against the state, is now not only tolerated and accepted, but actually
|
|
promoted in many of our public school sex education programs, in spite of
|
|
the fact that it is the leading cause of infection of the AIDS virus. For
|
|
a society that is as safety conscious as any in the world, this is a gross
|
|
contradiction. Does this bother you?" - Alan Kern
|
|
|
|
"Christians envying Pagans and wiccans? There's nothing to envy. Your god
|
|
was defeated by the blood of Jesus 2000 years ago, and he's only living on
|
|
borrowed time. You're following a loser, the biggest one in history of the
|
|
universe." - AK
|
|
|
|
"Science/archeology have often, and still do change their conclusions as
|
|
they continue to find new evidence." - AK
|
|
"Is AIDS a plague sent by God to judge homosexuals? "Likewise also the
|
|
men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one
|
|
another, men with men committing what is shameful, and recieving in
|
|
themselves the penalty of their error which was due"Rom.1:27 You don't
|
|
have to be a brain surgeon to figure these things out. Why is it only the
|
|
Christians who can discern the signs of the times? Because they have the
|
|
mind of Christ, and unbelievers have only their own." - AK-47
|
|
|
|
"And, BTW, if you'll read that bible you're always thumping, you'll find
|
|
that Jesus was a liberal. He hung around with poor people and social
|
|
outcasts, he helped the poor, he said that it's easier for a camel to go
|
|
through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven. But
|
|
then again, you have your head so far up your ass that you don't notice
|
|
these things." - Quentin Fai
|
|
|
|
"I detect the pot calling the fridge black. If there's anyone who's been
|
|
soundly disemboweled, it's you. You seem to be too stupid to notice,
|
|
though." - QF
|
|
|
|
"When Jesus comes again, and I believe it will be soon, there will be no
|
|
need for Democrats, Republicans or political representatives whatsoever.
|
|
Not only this, but the Constitution/Civil Rights Amendments and othersuch
|
|
will be out of place as well. For we who are his children will live under
|
|
the rule of a true Theocracy. We will be his people, and he will be our
|
|
God. And those who have chosen to reject God/Christ won't be around
|
|
anymore to pester those who ARE God's chosen people (and I do not speak
|
|
here of the Jewish nation)." - Tenna Draper
|
|
|
|
"Loose your fuckin' quote box or I'll rip yer head off with my
|
|
pitchfork." - Satan
|
|
|
|
"No one on this earth is starving to death EXCEPT by choice and Lazyness."
|
|
- Titus Ashbury
|
|
|
|
"Why does the earth always take 24 hours to get around the sun? Who
|
|
controls this?" - Gary Hull
|
|
|
|
"All are Slaves to God.. some know it, some dont." - Pratap Derrick
|
|
|
|
"...I do think that Christians are functionally illiterate or amoral. Why?
|
|
Because if you read your own damn holy book, and were a decent person, you
|
|
would reject it out of hand. Therefore, Christians (1) never read the
|
|
Bible, (2) can't understand what they read, or (3) are indecent."
|
|
- John McHenry
|
|
|
|
"The thoughtless are rarely wordless." - Tagline
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"But the Holy Spirit is a person....in the Godhead." - Unknown
|
|
|
|
"Is the "Godhead" where gods go to the bathroom?" - J.J. Hitt
|
|
|
|
"Quick, Jesus -- to the Godcave!" - Hector Plasmic
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Benevolence is a straw man, and these asteroids of yours are totally
|
|
theoretical." - Jesse Hornbacher
|
|
|
|
"Really? You really have lived a sheltered life, haven't you? Maybe you
|
|
ought to take a trip to Arizona (that's in the Southwestern U.S. in case
|
|
you don't know) and jump into Meteor Crater and bump your "theoretical
|
|
head". Ever look at the moon? Wonder where those craters came from? Or
|
|
do you think the moon really is made out of cheese? Swiss at that?" - Carl
|
|
Wilson
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Sorry, I must have misunderstood your question. I believe that the Holy
|
|
Spirit caused one of Mary's eggs to become a fetus without sperm." - Steve
|
|
Bedard
|
|
|
|
"In vertebrates, the phenomena of parthenogenesis (look it up) is well
|
|
documented in the classes Pisces, Amphibia and Reptilia, but not in Aves
|
|
nor Mammalia. Therefore, we are forced to conclude that ol' Jesus must
|
|
have been either a land shark or the original lounge lizard."
|
|
- Marty Leipzig
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Methinks they protest too much! If God doesn't exist, why pay any
|
|
attention to the activities of Christians?" - Frank Mcfatridge
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Because if you don't, one of their number might just stick a 12 gauge in
|
|
your ear and pull the trigger." - Marty Leipzig
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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"Christians envying Pagans and wiccans? There's nothing to envy. Your god
|
|
was defeated by the blood of Jesus 2000 years ago, and he's only living on
|
|
borrowed time. You're following a loser, the biggest one in history of the
|
|
universe." - Alan Kern
|
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"Do you have some evidence of this god of yours or are just blowing smoke
|
|
out your ass." - Martin Goldberg
|
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ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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"Most believers know the Bible was written by humans. The "issue" is
|
|
whether or not the human authors accurately described events such as the
|
|
parting of the sea." - John Prewitt
|
|
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|
"Okay. Then how did humans describe events such as the creation, which
|
|
happened before there were any humans to witness them? So much for that
|
|
hypothesis." - Kelsey Bjarnason
|
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ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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"Do you really expect me to believe that if God came down and killed your
|
|
child that you wouldn't be in the least bit upset?" - David Worrell
|
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"Why should I be? Thier all going to heaven." - Kenneth Mcabee
|
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ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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"I watched my daddy farm." - Hampie Mcdonald
|
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"Fancy that... Old Mcdonald had a farm." - J.J. Hitt
|
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ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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"Besides, if I was caught in a boat with Don [Ward], I'd jump overboard."
|
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- Kevin Mckenzie
|
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"That's where you and I are different - I'd throw Don overboard."
|
|
- David Worrell
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"When you get to be my age, you learn patience. I would not jump
|
|
overboard. I would not throw him overboard. In such a situation, with only
|
|
two guys, one boat, and the sea stretching for miles, I stand an excellent
|
|
chance of getting hungry later on." - Don Martin
|
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ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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"This is not comprehenable to man's brain." - Alan Kern
|
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|
|
"So which is it, Alan? You don't comprehend it or you don't have a man's
|
|
brain?" - "Hector Plasmic"
|
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ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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"So, "God" talks to you?" - Unknown
|
|
|
|
"Sure! Doesn't he talk to everybody?" - Tenna Draper
|
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|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
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|
"I agree it was not written for our level of technology. Yet fundies, in
|
|
spite of this, still insist on a literal interpretation." - Bruce Riley
|
|
|
|
"Yet Daniel told of aircraft, wireless radio, headlights on cars. Modern
|
|
technology. Naahhh." - Titus Ashbury
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
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|
|
"We are _all_ worthy of death." - Tenna Draper
|
|
|
|
"*You* might be. Kindly leave the rest of us out of your delusions."
|
|
- David Worrell
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Tuck your telephone wire up your arse, Doug, and upload your nine posts
|
|
where they will do the most good." - Don Martin
|
|
|
|
"I can always tell when I've hit the nail on the head: folks start
|
|
squawking. Thanks for confirming that the message got out." - Doug Snead
|
|
|
|
"You take a studied, vulgar insult of your behavior as a "squawk"? You
|
|
ARE a mindless little pustule, aren't you?" - DM
|
|
|
|
"BTW. Are you saved?" - DS
|
|
|
|
"I am afraid I do not share your hallucinations regarding imaginary
|
|
superfriends. Corroborate your biblical ravings with some verifiable
|
|
evidence, and I might consider signing up. But not until." - DM
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"May the Lord Jesus Christ soften your heart, Mr Martin." - Doug Snead
|
|
|
|
"He seems to have done a very good job of softening your brain."
|
|
- J.J. Hitt
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"It is stupid little gooks that bother me. Go stick it up your yellow
|
|
ass." - Matt Giwer
|
|
|
|
"I always suspected that Mr. Giwer was a complete and total gerbil
|
|
smuggling sheep humper, and now you've provided me with concrete evidence.
|
|
It's losers like that who give the rest of us godless heathens a bad
|
|
name." - Quentin Fai
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"JESUS died for His people." - Douglas Duke
|
|
|
|
"Jesus didn't die, remember? Don't you Christers believe he still lives?"
|
|
- David Worrell
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"The scientific evidence is at the end. Read the whole posting, it flows."
|
|
- Andew Conner
|
|
|
|
"Another characteristic it shares with diarrhoea." - Don Martin
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"So, why do the paramedics take a pulse? Why don't they just thump the
|
|
patient on the head?" - Don Ward
|
|
|
|
"Because, in your case, it could possibly damage their hands." - Dan Ceppa
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Oxygen is technically a poison, and is one of the causes of our eventual
|
|
death. Would you appreciate it if I tried to stop you from breathing to
|
|
prevent the damage to your body that oxygen causes?" - David Worrell
|
|
|
|
"Once again, a terrible analogy. I shouldn't even bother answering it, but
|
|
I might as well say something. First of all we need oxygen to survive. I
|
|
don't have to have sex with a male or female in order to survive."
|
|
- Ralph Jansen
|
|
|
|
"Irrelevant. Your whole argument against homosexuality rests on the fact
|
|
that it damages bodily tissues. Oxygen does the same thing. However,
|
|
since you don't like the oxygen angle, try certain harmful food groups.
|
|
Do you believe that fried foods should be outlawed since they damage our
|
|
bodies? Yes, I know, we do need to eat to survive, but it doesn't have to
|
|
be fried chicken. Are you going to support the campaign to outlaw Kentucky
|
|
Fried Chicken restaurant?" - DW
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"What happens when that big fusion bomb fails to emit light and heat."
|
|
- Andrew "Head-crash" Conner
|
|
|
|
"We freeze to death. Got any more silly questions?" - David Worrell
|
|
|
|
"Evidence of DE-EVOLUTION" - AC
|
|
|
|
"What is evidence of de-evolution?" - DW
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Satan is clever" - Don Ward
|
|
|
|
"And, of course, you don't want to be anything like satan.
|
|
Congratulations, you've succeeded." - Hector Plasmic
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Perhaps we could use him [Jim Staal] as a buoy in the middle of the
|
|
shipping channel." - Dan Ceppa
|
|
|
|
"I don't think so. Can you imagine the time it would take to get anything
|
|
done in a harbor if one of the bouys was constantly proselytizing every
|
|
ship that passed by?" - David Worrell
|
|
|
|
"ROTFL! `I baptize you the USS Fundy! Now, be fruitful and deliver
|
|
those bananas.'" - Dan Ceppa
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"The USA could kick Canada's butt with 99% of our military tied behind our
|
|
back... thanks to our technological and military knowledge."
|
|
- Andrew Cummins
|
|
|
|
"Wow, how patriotic of you. Patriotism is one thing, Andy...but ignorance
|
|
of the world is the one disease you seem to suffer from most. Why would
|
|
you be proud of the fact that we can invade and take over Canada (this is
|
|
doubtful I might add)? Why would you be proud of the fact that we've
|
|
invested so much money in bullets and far from enough in education?"
|
|
- Ryan Shaw
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"I've already addressed this in one message to you, but to emphasize: I AM
|
|
NOT A FUNDAMENTALIST. Do NOT make assumptions about me thinking I am." -
|
|
Michael Hardy
|
|
|
|
"`Quack,' said a certain flight-capable aquatic fowl. You persist in
|
|
trying to include the unaffected in your beliefs. If you have webbed feet,
|
|
quack and waddle like a duck, chances are, you are, indeed, a duck." -FR
|
|
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"(Here, sheep, sheep, sheep.... Here, sheep, sheep, sheep.....)"
|
|
- Quentin Fai
|
|
|
|
"Try your local church." - Drew Webber
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"The main thrust of the cross is that JESUS was placed upon a pole, just
|
|
as Moses lifted up the serpent on a pole in the OT." - Douglas Duke
|
|
|
|
"And when the Pope lifts his staff, we have the spectacle of Jesus on a
|
|
pole on a Pole." - Don Martin
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Christians have a right and a duty to eradicate all false religions from
|
|
the face of the earth. If possible this should be done through bringing
|
|
the lost to Jesus. If that doesn't work then these false relions should
|
|
be destroyed by any means necessary." - "Trent Dented"
|
|
|
|
"Dear Trent... You aint dented, yer fucking wrapped around a goddam tree.
|
|
Do any of these "false religions" that you have marked for destruction
|
|
claim to be Christian? If so, please tell me how you tell the "true"
|
|
Christians from the "false" Christians? Are you out to destroy all
|
|
Catholics or all Protestants? And what about the Christian Scientists,
|
|
Jehovas Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists and the Salvation Army?
|
|
You gonna destroy all them too? They _ALL_ beleive in Jesus, even if they
|
|
disagree with the mainstream on some points. How many Jews are you going
|
|
to destroy? (The current high score is six-million some odd. That's
|
|
going to be mighty hard to beat.)" - J.J. Hitt
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Atheist ethics are so much hot air." - John Prewett
|
|
|
|
"While Christian ethics carry hot lead with them?" - George Rudzinski
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Christianity would be amusing, if it hadn't killed millions throughout
|
|
history." - Unknown
|
|
|
|
"Christianity never killed anybody or anything. Angry, frightened people
|
|
killed other people while hiding behind the name." - Charlie Cowan
|
|
|
|
"Hmm. By the same reasoning, Naziism never killed anybody. The problem
|
|
with such reasoning is that it completely ignores the reality that many
|
|
dogmas include an incitement to killing. Take a gander at the Old
|
|
Testament, for example: it is loaded with rampant killing, generally for
|
|
no more reason than that the victims dared to think for themselves."
|
|
- Kelsey Bjarnason
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Well, now keep in mind that I am only speaking for myself." - Jim Staal
|
|
|
|
"Lil' fundi, I don't see the prospects for you being hired to speak for
|
|
anyone else
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Maybe you should ask MISTER Ceppa. He'll probably try and convince you
|
|
that is really Dave Oosterman." - Jim Staal
|
|
|
|
"Between you and Oosterman, you don't have enough balls to make a pawn
|
|
sign symbol." - Dan Ceppa
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Believe me, I *KNOW* the human side of *frustration*!!!" - Niki Zanzo
|
|
|
|
"Have you considered hiring a hooker?" - "Captain Fuck"
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"I didn't think that curse words and sacrigious messages belonged on this
|
|
conference." - Margureet Kendall
|
|
|
|
"You have provided ample evidence of your incapacity to think in the past,
|
|
so why should the present be any different?" - Don Martin
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Gravity to you is Satan holding you back from the salvation of Jesus
|
|
Christ." - Don Ward
|
|
|
|
"What have you been smoking and what was it laced with?"
|
|
- Preston Simpson
|
|
|
|
"Second hand smoke laced with the spirit of GOD" - Don Ward
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Gay people are worshipers of SATIN" - Don Ward
|
|
|
|
"No sheet?" -J.J. Hitt
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"One day not to far away I am afaid to say that it will actually be
|
|
against the law to speak of Jesus in public," - Michell Miller
|
|
|
|
"Your paranoid delusions are amusingly ridiculous. But if they make life
|
|
a little sweeter for you, enjoy." - Robert Curry
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"American schools are falling FAR behind the rest of the world. We are
|
|
really becoming a joke, in so far as education goes. This started when
|
|
we took prayer and creation teaching out of public schools. Conclussion:
|
|
We took God out of school, and the school system is falling apart."
|
|
- Doug Brewer
|
|
|
|
"Preposterous to the nth degree. The Japanese have one of the most
|
|
rigorous and hardest school systems in the world, churning out
|
|
highly-educated people who, unlike many of their American counterparts,
|
|
can read, write, and cipher by the time they graduate. I am not aware of
|
|
*any* Christian influence in *any* Japanese class, yet they consistently
|
|
provide higher educational standards than we do. Conclusion: Your
|
|
conclusion is full of shit." - Preston Simpson
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"... God told me to set you on fire." - Dan Ceppa
|
|
|
|
"Uh, I don't _think_ so. God does not talk to evil pagans who do not
|
|
believe He exists." - Jim Staal
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"What does John 3:16 mean to you." - Marguerite Kendall
|
|
|
|
"It means it is time for John to get a new watch. His current one is
|
|
stuck." - Steve Rose
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Bob Swell
|
|
|
|
"Kill any innocent witches of late?" - Fredric Rice
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"I didn't make this up, it says this in the Bible." - Chris Vetter
|
|
|
|
"I see. So you are simply allowing someone else to make it all up for
|
|
you." - Steve Rose
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Ah, the tired and disreputable old "He wasn't a *true* Christian"
|
|
argument. Save it for someone who hasn't heard it." - Preston Simpson
|
|
|
|
"Argumentum ad bozum non Christii." - Robert Jackson
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"I guess you are also forgetting the practice of human sacrifice as
|
|
described in the bible?" - Judith "Bandsaw" Bandsma
|
|
|
|
"Shame on you Judith! You call yourself a Quaker! I smell a witch."
|
|
- Jim Murray
|
|
|
|
"Fee, fie, fo, fum, we all smell the stench of Christendom. Gonna start
|
|
lighting bonfires, are you now? It's quite typical of the ignorant to
|
|
accuse those more learned than they of "witchcraft". Your ancestors from
|
|
Plymouth would be so thrilled that you are carrying on the family
|
|
bigotry. I suppose you still wear one of those pointy hats to hide your
|
|
pointed head." - Dan Ceppa
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Alcohol should still be illegal. I am sure that everyone is familiar
|
|
with the harm that it does when used to excess. If everyone were capable
|
|
of using it in moderation, I would see no problem with it, but you and I
|
|
know that is not the case." -Dan Baldwin/Captain Fuck/Dr. James Robertson
|
|
|
|
So your answer is punish everybody because a minority of idiots lack
|
|
self-control and good judgement? Gee, then I guess we should ban the use
|
|
of automobiles, firearms, cutlery, and baseball bats. Your inability to
|
|
reason astounds me. And I've met my share of unreasonable people."
|
|
- Garrett Banse
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"As marijuana does not produce food, it was not put here for our
|
|
benefit." - Dan Baldwin/Captain Fuck/Dr. James Robertson
|
|
|
|
"Do you have even the most remote evidence to support this stupid idea?
|
|
We cannot eat air, gasoline, cotton, glass, etc. either, so by your
|
|
statement I guess we should all run around naked until we suffocate,
|
|
huh?" - John Hewett
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"I hope Staal and Oosterman are covering their ears. Or should I tell
|
|
them you're in desperate need of counseling?" - Unknown
|
|
|
|
"Counseling? Counseling for what?" - Jim Staal/Dave Oosterman
|
|
|
|
"A split personality. Thing is, between the 2 of you, you don't have
|
|
one." - Dan Ceppa
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"More unsubstantiated rubbish. Can't you think for yourself?"
|
|
- Preston Simpson
|
|
|
|
"Sorry I don't need too, I have God to think for me." - Kenneth Mcabee
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"[however, even in the OT, God reasoned with God's people,"
|
|
- John Prewitt
|
|
|
|
"and anyone who was not "God's people" were wiped off the face of the
|
|
planet if they got in the way." - David Worrell
|
|
|
|
"So,... once the word gets around, smart people don't get in the way."
|
|
- John Prewett
|
|
|
|
"Ahhh.. I see. God's a *bully*. It's so much clearer now. You have
|
|
reaffirmed the claim made by many of us heathens that your God rules
|
|
through intimidation and fear." - David Worrell
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Stop the car or you're going to drive off a cliff!" That's what the
|
|
warning of "hell" is Stephen, a warning -- not a threat." -Michael Hardy
|
|
|
|
"Ahh, but God put us in the car, cut the brake lines, and aimed the car at
|
|
a cliff." - David Worrell
|
|
|
|
"Then hid all evidence that the cliff exists, made sure that all 'warnings'
|
|
were irrational, illogical, and patently absurd, and then selected only
|
|
drooling lunatics as its spokespeople. Guite obviously, this god of theirs
|
|
is more fucked up than they are." - David Rice
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Yes, perfectly. So, if MY book says it's the Word of God, how do you know
|
|
that it is not?" - Steve Quarella
|
|
|
|
"Because only _mine_ is, silly man. Why does it take you so long to catch
|
|
on to these things?" - Jim Stall
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"I'm glad you said that...Get thee to a library and read SALVATION FOR
|
|
SALE. Gerard Thomas Straub is the author." - Steve Quarella
|
|
|
|
"Sorry. Don't read pagan books" - Jim Staal
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Now, the sun-worshippers noticed that at certain points in time, the sun
|
|
grew smaller, then stopped, then grew larger." - Leon Brooks
|
|
|
|
"It doesn't. It doesn't even APPEAR to change in size." - J.J. Hitt
|
|
|
|
"Perhaps you haven't been staring at it for long enough." - Leon Brooks
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"Ask your local public librarian about other scriptures, Jim."
|
|
- Robert Curry
|
|
|
|
"There are no other scriptures, Robert..." - Jim Staal
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"You guess wrong. The Hindus, the Zoroastrians, and the Buddhists are just
|
|
three other religious groups that had religious scriptures before your
|
|
Christian religion even began writing its own." - Robert Curry
|
|
|
|
"Ha-ha! Where _do_ you get this irresponsible information? Nothing could
|
|
be farther from the truth. Nothing predates Genesis 1:1...'in the
|
|
beginning...'." - Jim Staal
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
"That's it, blow job. "IS NOT!!!!!" You are a liar -" - Drew Webber
|
|
|
|
"AM NOT!!!" - Jim Staal
|
|
|
|
"<snicker> Scream it a little louder for those in back." - Preston Simpson
|
|
|
|
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
|
|
|
|
This is the introduction to the HOLYSMOKE Fidonet echo conference FAQ. It
|
|
attempts to ask the question, "Why is there holy smoke?" The quick answer is,
|
|
"Because it fills a need." The long answer is slightly more complicated.
|
|
|
|
There are many religion-based echo conferences in Fidonet, most of which are
|
|
sponsored and moderated by members of various religions. The majority of these
|
|
conferences are various forms of monotheism such as Christianity, Judaism, and
|
|
Islam, with various Christian cults dominating (in Zone 1). Many other
|
|
religious conferences are polytheistic or pantheistic, such as Wiccan, Pagan,
|
|
and neo-Pagan. And then there are what can loosely be clumped together as "New
|
|
Age," though much of "New Age Thought" is not religious, but rather
|
|
philosophical and ideological-- this observation varies from one "New Ager" to
|
|
another.
|
|
|
|
The latter two echoes welcome honest inquiry and criticism. The Wiccan
|
|
religion, of which there are several "Traditions,", REQUIRE honest inquiry,
|
|
relentless questioning, and harsh criticism from their members and students to
|
|
any dogma that may be presented-- the Wiccan echoes reflect this free inquiry,
|
|
and all queries are generally answered in the spirit of honesty and mutual
|
|
respect.
|
|
|
|
None of us have spent any time in the "New Age" (Rymes with sewage) echoes,
|
|
so we can't tell you anything about them.
|
|
|
|
If you have spent any time at all reading the monotheist echoes, and
|
|
particularly the Christian and Islamic ones, you will have discovered that the
|
|
moderators, without exception, are authoritarian, dictatorial, and grim
|
|
"control freaks" who will not tolerate honest inquiry of their ridged dogma--
|
|
questioning "virgin births," "bleeding / weeping statues," and asking "Why
|
|
would god pray to himself?" are immediately ruled "off topic," and the person
|
|
posing the question may have her echo feed severed, usually with a lot of hell
|
|
and damnation thrown in, sometimes with threats of legal action, and then she
|
|
is ordered to repent from her sin of questioning "god" (i.e. the moderator's
|
|
occult beliefs). Since these cults refuse to accept anything less than
|
|
unquestioned obedience to their religious dogma, another echo was required
|
|
where one may go and ask the right questions and discover the truth.
|
|
|
|
The HOLYSMOKE echo exists so that off-topic religious issues from other echoes
|
|
in Fidonet may be moved to an echo where they are topical. No one in the past
|
|
four years has yet succeeded in helping any theist think past their
|
|
brainwashing and self-deception to see the truth, but there's always the chance
|
|
that some ignorant god- believing savage will be saved from their delusions, so
|
|
we have to try.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "HOLYSMOKE?"
|
|
A: HolySmoke, the "McLaughlin Group" of Fidonet echoes, is an arena wherein
|
|
people with deeply-held religious convictions may come and set the ignorant
|
|
Godless heathens straight, or not, as the case may be. This is the echo
|
|
where echovangelists are banished when they are off-topic in other Fidonet
|
|
echoes, such as A_THEIST and COOKING. (See "Echovangelist" entry below).
|
|
It is the "electroshock therapy for religion addicts" cure that so many
|
|
Fidonet members are so richly and clearly in need of. The moderator is Styx
|
|
Allum of 1:152/20. If you don't like his name, insult his parents. It's
|
|
REAL!
|
|
|
|
Q: Why is the phrases "You seem bitter" and "My, you're so full of
|
|
anger" so often used by religionists in HolySmoke?
|
|
|
|
A: These phrases are often used as replies to excessively abrasive arguments by
|
|
an agnostic or atheist that has demonstrated the religionist's pet
|
|
assertions false; the religionist resorts to eliciting an emotional response
|
|
instead of addressing the topic at hand.
|
|
|
|
A: From John Musselwhite:
|
|
You may be missing the point. The people who are ridiculed (as it were) are
|
|
not those who profess a simple belief in a creator; they are those who
|
|
insist their beliefs are correct and we MUST ALL bow down before GOD before
|
|
we all roast in Hell. Then there are those who make ridiculous claims about
|
|
the veracity of their "Book" and attempt to use pseudo-science to "prove"
|
|
they are right. As for myself, I could care less who a person worships,
|
|
although I usually strongly disagree with their intent. As a secular
|
|
student of biblical times, I have learned a lot about what Christianity was
|
|
really all about (IMHO) and what life was like in first-century Judah.
|
|
Personally, I feel those who take the Bible literally and those who follow
|
|
Pauline thought should study more, and attempt to understand what was REALLY
|
|
going on! By far the biggest problem though, are those who insist I should
|
|
pay to support their religion. Our city supports a separate school system
|
|
for Catholics, and the duplication of services and buildings costs every one
|
|
of us. There are many examples of religion being pushed on those who do not
|
|
wish it. We who do NOT wish to have anything to do with religion must
|
|
suffer through innumerable disturbances from people who insist their
|
|
religion should be in the forefront. THOSE are the people who are the
|
|
targets of ridicule in this echo!
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a `fundi'? (Also, fundy, fundies)
|
|
A: From Marty Leipzig:
|
|
|
|
FUNDIE (fun'dee) n. and adj. (pl. Fundies), A member of an American
|
|
conservative religious movement that believes in biblical inerrancy. This
|
|
movement had its roots in the nineteenth-century orthodox reaction to the
|
|
higher (historico- literary) criticism of the Bible that originated among
|
|
European theologians and was accepted by American "modernists".
|
|
Fundamentalism owes its name to the "Five Fundamentals", a list of five
|
|
beliefs that the Presbyterian General Assembly drew up in 1910 as being
|
|
essential to the Christian faith. Among those fundamentals was the doctrine
|
|
of biblical inerrancy.
|
|
|
|
Fundies (scientifically: Homo nesciens idiotus) come in two varieties;
|
|
(about more later) but are united by the belief that each and every word
|
|
("jot and tittle") of the Holy Writ (at least, their latest authorized
|
|
version) is unequivocally true. When they find a text convenient to an
|
|
argument, it is quotable as the ultimate truth. But when confronted with an
|
|
apparent contradiction, however rational and logical, they sail away upon
|
|
the wings of a symbol, an analogy of hidden or recondite significance.
|
|
|
|
Although two separate and distinct "kinds" of fundies exist, (H.n.i. var.
|
|
ruralensis and H.n.i. var. urbanensis), they can be typically identified
|
|
by their ubiquitous possession of a heavily thumped (but seldom read) Bible;
|
|
an almost cataleptic and unquestioned adherence to dated dogma and the
|
|
extraordinarily annoying ability of being able to interject their own
|
|
personal version of ethics and morality into almost any subject, no matter
|
|
how abstruse. As a group, they are exasperatingly uni-dimensional.
|
|
|
|
H.n.i. var. ruralensis can be typified as a backwoods rustic living among
|
|
the 'possums, 'coons, 'dillos and magnolias who is functionally illiterate.
|
|
Though some may become transplanted to more municipal settings; they
|
|
stubbornly adhere to old habits: mouth breathing, barefootedness and
|
|
brainless Bible-based bleating.
|
|
|
|
A macroevolutionary jump (although most would argue that it is really a
|
|
regressive event) is responsible for the other variety: H.n.i. var.
|
|
urbanensis. They arose from their humbler cousins in the deep, dark, dank
|
|
backwoods but have evolved to exploit the trophism of bright lights,
|
|
television cameras, teleprompters and wireless communication. Basically, a
|
|
member of this group can be described as a country bumpkin of the
|
|
wacko-right turned religious zealot and usually named Billy, Jimmy, Oral or
|
|
some other familiar sobriquet. They drape the mantle of Christian piety
|
|
around their shoulders (which they carefully interweave with the American
|
|
flag), and stomping off on a witch hunt; ferret out "fellow travelers",
|
|
"one- worlders", that archenemy of all right thinking people: the "secular
|
|
humanist", and other assorted bogeymen. With a primitive view of this world
|
|
and a psychedelic view of the next, they harangue lost sinners (and those
|
|
with the ability to think for themselves) in an impassioned and declamatory
|
|
style to "REPENT!" and be born again. Ranting and raving; and spouting
|
|
smoke, fury, fire, brimstone and stained glass blather; they pace whatever
|
|
stage they can usurp like a whirling dervish with a caffeine addiction. The
|
|
venue may change, but the song always remains the same.
|
|
|
|
Usually, such narrowly unspecialized organisms as the ones cited above
|
|
represent an evolutionary dead-end. In these cases, though, it is more of a
|
|
U-turn.
|
|
|
|
A: From Don Martin:
|
|
Fundy is short for a combination of two words emerging from the same Latin
|
|
root, _fundus_ (bottom), from whence _fundare_ (to lay the bottom). The
|
|
English _fundament_ refers to 1. the buttocks. 2. the anus. Religious
|
|
extremists, who do their thinking with these organs, practice
|
|
_fundamentalism_: 1. orthodox religious beliefs based on a literal
|
|
interpretation of the Bible. 2. Among some American Protestants, the
|
|
movement based on this belief: opposed to _modernism_.
|
|
|
|
Around here, fundy simply means religious asshole. [Isn't that redundant?
|
|
-CJ]
|
|
|
|
A: Someone who hates for God, and calls it "love." These can come from any
|
|
cult: Born Against Christians, Krishna Devotees, Mormons, Cult Awareness
|
|
Network, Pat Robertson's, Jerry Falwell's, Jimmy Stewart's.
|
|
|
|
Q: "Why is everyone picking on me?"
|
|
A: Chances are, you deserve it. When someone asserts wild and baseless claims,
|
|
and then insists that others believe these claims, one may expect a little
|
|
heat. Some assertions that generate heat: "My book was written by god
|
|
because it says so, and god wouldn't lie." "God hates such-and-such." "God
|
|
loves such-and-such." "I'll pray for you, you stupid ignorant gibbering
|
|
idiot pitiful atheists." Some of the theists in HOLYSMOKE are not picked on
|
|
or abused, because they do not bring it upon themselves. Most atheists and
|
|
agnostics, Pagans and Wiccans and other disreputable folks in HOLYSMOKE get
|
|
their toast fried now and then, too, so don't feel you're alone in your
|
|
"persecution."
|
|
|
|
Q: Everyone is calling me a bigot because I stand for Christ! [Oh, PLEASE
|
|
drive those nails in harder!]
|
|
|
|
A: From Kelsey Bjarnason:
|
|
Incorrect. Anyone who discriminates based on
|
|
prejudice or other unreasoned foundation is labelled 'bigot'. If blacks
|
|
were known to be rampant killers with no sense of the value of life, you
|
|
would not be a bigot to be afraid of them, or to point out that they need to
|
|
be controlled.
|
|
|
|
However, blacks are not rampant killers. Indeed, the only distinguishing
|
|
feature, as a group compared to whites as a group, is their skin
|
|
pigmentation - hardly a worthy basis for fearing or controlling them.
|
|
|
|
You see? Someone who discriminates against blacks simply because they are
|
|
black is a bigot - the discrimination is entirely unwarranted.
|
|
|
|
Many Christians are shown to be bigots by the words and their actions. They
|
|
discriminate against gays, against people who have sex before marriage,
|
|
against women, against scientists. All of that discrimination is based on -
|
|
and please make very careful note of this - ***nothing*** more than their
|
|
personal choice to adopt a belief system of which such discrimination is an
|
|
inherent part.
|
|
|
|
You can't point to God. You can't show that he exists. There is asbolutley
|
|
nothing in all of observed reality which even hints at any deity, let alone
|
|
a specific deity. The only way to adopt the belief in such a being is
|
|
*purely* by personal choice. You choose to adopt a belief of discrimination
|
|
and hatred.
|
|
|
|
Can you see now why disliking Christians, or more accurately the Christian
|
|
dogma, is not necessarily bigotry, but rather is a sane and rational
|
|
response to a very real threat?
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "Hir?"
|
|
A: Politically correct gender-neutral noun, "Her + Him = Hir."
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "Crucifixation?"
|
|
A: A state of mental duress, usually inside a fundamentalist Christian brain,
|
|
that admires blood, guts, suffering, agony, drinking blood of God and eating
|
|
His body, and usually wishes to be crucified and martyred hirself. This
|
|
fixation prevents those afflicted with it to question why Jews would crucify
|
|
a heretic in the Roman fashion, when death by stoning was the preferred
|
|
method of disposing of sons of Gods.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the "Flood Of Ignorance?"
|
|
A: The Creationist's claims of a global flood, survived by Noah and his clan,
|
|
whereby millions of humans died horribly; whereby billions of animals died
|
|
in screaming terror by drowning-- your typical Christian Death Cult story,
|
|
which they get off on so much.
|
|
|
|
Q: What's this "IHS!" thing?
|
|
A: This can mean a great many things! It was originally coined by a HolySmoke
|
|
Regular to mean "In His Service!" though it is not clear just who "His" may
|
|
be. Usual variations may mean "I'm Happy Stupid!" SHIt backwards, "I'm
|
|
Helping Satan!" "In Hitler's Service!" "I Hate Science!" "Idiot Has Spoken!"
|
|
"I heat sausage!" "I Hate Spam!" and others far too numerous to mention.
|
|
The most common usage in HOLYSMOKE means "BULLtIHS!" The original meaning is
|
|
"In Hoc Signum Vincit," referring to the Christian crucifix as "By this sign
|
|
we conquer."
|
|
|
|
Q: And what's this "TIHS!" thing?
|
|
A: SHIT backwards.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "One Nation Under God?"
|
|
A: Iran.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Creationist?"
|
|
A: What apes evolved from.
|
|
|
|
Q: Really, what is a Creationist?
|
|
A: Someone who is stupid enough to 'think' the FACT of evolution is false just
|
|
because their hol(e)y book(s) tell them so.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Factualist?"
|
|
A: See Creationist.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Not Real True Christian?"
|
|
A: Any Christian that isn't a member of the same cult as the one talking right
|
|
now.
|
|
|
|
A: When murder, mayhem, rape, and atrocities are performed by Christians in the
|
|
name of God, their partners in religion say they were not Real True
|
|
Christians. Some famous Not Real True Christians include Jim Bakker, Jimmy
|
|
Swaggart, Jim Jones, Hitler, Jerry Falwell, All Catholics, Jeffrey Dahlmer,
|
|
Mike Warnke, John "Todd" Collins, Mormons, God Jehovah, and the IRA/Provos.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Real True Christian?"
|
|
A: The Christian that you happen to be talking to at this minute.
|
|
|
|
A: A Christian, individually or grouped in a herd, that has not yet been
|
|
exposed as child molesters, pornographers, whore-mongers, serial killers, or
|
|
income tax cheaters. (See "Not Real True Christian.") Some famous Real True
|
|
Christians are Gandi, who wasn't, Buddha, who isn't, and Jesus, who never
|
|
existed.
|
|
|
|
Q: Now hold on here. You can't responsibly group those obviously psychotic
|
|
fringe groups that claim to be of God with the true Christians among us.
|
|
A: From Paul Boyer:
|
|
Why not group "those obviously psychotic fringe groups" with the rest of the
|
|
*cough, cough* "True Christians"? You "True Christians" do exactly the same
|
|
thing you decry above, against groups with which you disagree -- i.e., you
|
|
characterize all gays and lesbians from the actions of extremist ACT UP
|
|
affinity groups; you characterize all pro-choice people from the activities
|
|
of a few doctors who perform late-term abortions [in emergencies]; you
|
|
characterize all Liberals from the views of a few who are doctrinaire
|
|
Leftists. You and your kind demonize your opponents from the actions of a
|
|
few of the most extreme of their kind, yet expect to be exempt from similar
|
|
stigmatization?
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "Christian Double Standard Time"
|
|
A: This is the standard that some Christians use to judge who is and is not
|
|
Christian. If a Christian commits a crime for Jesus, the perpetrator may or
|
|
may not be a criminal or Christian, depending on the crime. See "Not Real
|
|
Christian."
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Christian Comic?"
|
|
A: In a great many Fidonet echoes, there are days when a Christian
|
|
Fundamentalist waltzes in, says something hilarious, then waltzes out
|
|
without regard for topical relatedness, quality, protocol, or desire for
|
|
rational dialogue. Humorous stuff like "You're forever damned for all
|
|
time," or "The first law of thermodynamics says evolution is false (they
|
|
don't know how to count to two)," or "They aren't Real True Christians."
|
|
|
|
Such jerks often get refered to HOLYSMOKE. Most of them are cowards for
|
|
Christ and never show up.
|
|
|
|
Q: What does "IS NOT!" mean?
|
|
A: This is the Theory of Creation Science.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the "Theory of Creation Science?"
|
|
A: "IS NOT!" Creationists refuse to provide a theory of Creationism, because
|
|
they do not have one. Therefore it is damn hard to teach it in public
|
|
school, yet they still demand that it should. Creationists assume that if
|
|
they can find holes in evolutionary theory, their religious beliefs become
|
|
true via default. Therefore their efforts are never to find evidence to
|
|
falsify their non- existent theory, but to "prove" evolutionary theory
|
|
unsound-- this effort they call "Creation Science," which it isn't. Go
|
|
figure.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the "$15.00 God Challenge?"
|
|
A: David Rice will give US$15.00 to anyone who can prove He isn't God.
|
|
Previous attempts have failed miserably, as contestants assume that He must
|
|
perform some miracle for them, which would be Him proving He is God, and not
|
|
them proving He is not. This challenge is a thought experiment for theists
|
|
to consider when they assert proof of their tiny little gods and disproof of
|
|
Others like the One True God, David Rice. If they can prove their god(s)
|
|
are real, surely they can prove Omnipotent Rice isn't?
|
|
|
|
Frederic Rice aparently has $1000 U.S. up for grabs if anyone can prove any
|
|
god exists.
|
|
|
|
NOTE: These offers are from their respective parties. I am in no way
|
|
connected with them. I have not verified the truthfulnes of either offer.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the "Mutant Star Goat?"
|
|
A: The One True God, Who created life, the universe, and everything. Now prove
|
|
me wrong! This is another thought experiment for theists. Everything they
|
|
claim for their God(s) can be said for Star Goat with equal validity. Star
|
|
Goat (braise His name) sent His only begotten Son, Billy, to Earth to die on
|
|
the Holy Bar-Be-Que Pit for us. Those who continue to deny this truth will
|
|
be eaten on Judgment Day by Star Goat, to stew in the Holy Bile for all
|
|
eternity. If a theist believes she or he can punch a hole in Star Goat
|
|
theology, they should come to realize eventually that every hole they create
|
|
APPLIES EQUALLY to their God(s). No one can prove Star Goat is not the One
|
|
True God, and Goatees know in their hearts that He is, therefore He is!
|
|
QED.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Goatee?"
|
|
A: A devotee of Star Goat.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "Bile-ed" and "Bile-it?"
|
|
A: When evil sinners, or anyone else who did not worship Star Goat in life,
|
|
find themselves dead, their souls will be swallowed by Billy, Star Goat's
|
|
only beGoatten Son, to stew in the Holy Bile for all eternity. This is
|
|
roughly equivalent to "damned" but unlike the falsehood of Hell, the Holy
|
|
Bile EXISTS! Goat save you if you don't hurry and accept Billy as your
|
|
Personal Savior! Send money! We are the advocates of the Goat Life!
|
|
Honest. (No refunds.)
|
|
|
|
Q: "Pink, invisible, flying hippo?" Excuse me?
|
|
A: Yes. Her name is Daisy, and she leaves invisible, smell-free turds on the
|
|
keyboards of every fundy that posts in HOLYSMOKE. Now prove she doesn't!
|
|
When someone brings up the non-measurability of their favorite god (Jesus,
|
|
Satan, Yahweh, Jehovah, Zeus, Odin), others bring up Daisy and point out
|
|
that the evidence she exists is identical to the evidence their god(s)
|
|
exist.
|
|
|
|
Q: What's an Athiest?
|
|
A: Bile-ed if I know! Christian Comics use this word to represent people
|
|
without morals; heathens without ethics; lawyers; baby-eaters; perverts;
|
|
sodomites; people who voted Democrat. This word is universally used by
|
|
theists, and helps to demonstrate the abysmal lack of education that is
|
|
common in fundamentalist families.
|
|
|
|
Q: What's an Atheist? [HINT: Look at the case of the first letter!]
|
|
A: No such animal. Did you mean atheist?
|
|
|
|
Q: Err, what's the difference?
|
|
A: None, but if you insist on using Atheist, you will be showing that you are a
|
|
complete and utter bozo who knows next to nothing about grammar.
|
|
|
|
Q: What's an atheist?
|
|
A: From Usenet's alt.atheist FAQ:
|
|
|
|
Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of God.
|
|
Some atheists go further, and believe that God does not exist. The former
|
|
is often referred to as the "weak atheist" position, and the latter as
|
|
"strong atheism".
|
|
|
|
It is important to note the difference between these two positions. "Weak
|
|
atheism" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. "Strong
|
|
atheism" is a positive belief that God does not exist. Please do not fall
|
|
into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists".
|
|
|
|
Some atheists believe in the non-existence of all Gods; others limit their
|
|
atheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making
|
|
flat-out denials.
|
|
|
|
"But isn't disbelieving in God the same thing as believing he doesn't
|
|
exist?"
|
|
|
|
Definitely not. Disbelief in a proposition means that one does not believe
|
|
it to be true. Not believing that something is true is not equivalent to
|
|
believing that it is false; one may simply have no idea whether it is true
|
|
or not.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is an "Agnostic?"
|
|
A: One who doesn't know, or give a shit, if God exist or not.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "God?"
|
|
A: God is God because He is.
|
|
|
|
Q: No really: what is "God?"
|
|
A: God is someone theists attribute all the good things that happen, like "I
|
|
thank God for letting me win this football game," or "Thank God they didn't
|
|
catch me molesting these alter boys," or "Thank God for my job / spouse /
|
|
slaves." This Guy gets all the credit for other people's hard work and
|
|
devotion.
|
|
|
|
Q: I'm serious, now! What is "God?"
|
|
A: God is someone theists attribute all the bad things that happen, like
|
|
hurricanes that kill hundreds and leave thousands homeless ("It was God's
|
|
Will"), earthquake disasters, plane crashes, New Jersey never winning the
|
|
Pennant, floods, death by lightening strike, and virginity.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is an "Echovangelist?"
|
|
A: Steve Winter
|
|
|
|
Q: Who or what is "Steve Winter"
|
|
A: A jerk who was booted from Fidonet for being overly annoying in the name of
|
|
the Laaard. He was since alowed back in to Fidonet because the IC is a
|
|
spineless pile of shit. Ask if you want full details.
|
|
|
|
Q: How does one deal with Echovangelists?
|
|
A: Ignore them and let the moderator deal with them. You see, these sorry,
|
|
pathetic souls NEED, and WANT, and DESIRE to be ridiculed and abused. They
|
|
lust after the feeling of being persecuted, because they think it's for
|
|
"defending God" when in fact it is for being an anal-retentive asshole. If
|
|
they are not feeling persecuted, they feel they are not doing their job well
|
|
enough to keep out of hell.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "Penis Envy?"
|
|
A: This is what Randal Terry's wife, who has never seen one, suffers from. For
|
|
most people, however, this is a male affliction, not a female one.
|
|
According to Satan, in His book "Satan: His Psychotherapy and Cure (by the
|
|
Unfortunate Doctor Kasser, J.S.P.S.)" the first words out of Eve's mouth was
|
|
"Where do I get one of those?" (But then, Satan is a Freudian.)
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the "Fundi-Of-The-Month" club?
|
|
A: HOLYSMOKE. Almost every month, a new group of fundies shows up, spouting
|
|
the same old religous/creationism claptrap. The most brainless ones have
|
|
been here for upto 2 years, but most depart in a month or so.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Republican?"
|
|
A: Someone who spends 12 years annihilating American freedoms, destroying the
|
|
Supreme Court, making being black illegal, raids Social Security of 500
|
|
million dollars when they promised they wouldn't, starts wars in South
|
|
Amarica, invades Panama in defience of international law had the second
|
|
largest tax increase of all time -- a net increase of $125 billion over five
|
|
years. [Wall Street Journal, 8/12/92], then blames the damage on his
|
|
successor.
|
|
A: A very sore loser.
|
|
A: The USA equivilant of Sin Fein, except that they have Prodestant, rather
|
|
than Catholic, leanings.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "Democrat?"
|
|
A: A commie pinko socialist traitor bleeding-heart liberal anarchist who
|
|
Republicans can use as convenient scapegoats.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "cult?"
|
|
A: Anyone who doesn't belong to the same religous group that you do.
|
|
A: A religon without political power.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the "OFTEN_BABBLE" (Also, "OPEN_BABBLE") echo?
|
|
A: The echo is actually called OPEN_BIBLE.
|
|
|
|
Q: Tell me about the "HOLY_BIBLE" echo.
|
|
A: This echo is run by the emotionally ill Steve Winters, who has professed it
|
|
to be THE ONLY =REAL= Christian echo on Fidonet, disregarding the dozen or
|
|
so other Christian echoes, which aren't really, but just clever simulations
|
|
by Satan into fooling people into believing that the echoes are
|
|
Christian-based. No, really! Just ask Steve!
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the "HERESY_WATCH" echo?
|
|
A: The true name for Harvey Smith's CULT_WATCH echo (which doesn't). This is
|
|
your basic Christian hate cult promoting ignorance, hysteria, and propaganda
|
|
for God. This echo is sponsored by a messianic Jewish cult.
|
|
|
|
Q: What about the "CULT_INFO" echo?
|
|
A: This is a very fine echo, that constructively addresses religious
|
|
differences, and seeks to find a common dialog among the various religions
|
|
that are represented in the echo's readership. It is moderated by the
|
|
Priestess Rowan Moonstone. This echo is ONLY accessable from PODS.
|
|
|
|
Q: And the echo "BURNING_TIMES?"
|
|
A: This is an echo that addresses violence in the name of religion / God.
|
|
There are often newspaper articles posted here, keeping readers up to date
|
|
on the "Satanic Crime" myth, and discusses attacks against such groups as
|
|
Pagans, Wiccans, Christians, Homosexuals, and Jews by religionists and
|
|
bigots.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is the A_THEIST echo?
|
|
A: A place to discuss the importance of state / church separation. We don't do
|
|
god(s) here! See also CHURCH&STATE. Both are both the North Amarican
|
|
backbone and on Plannet Connect.
|
|
|
|
Q: What does "fundagelical" mean?
|
|
A: Someone who is so narrow minded to be able to look through a keyhole with
|
|
both eyes at the same time. Examples: Joe Savelli, Steve Winter, Jim Staal.
|
|
Not in that order.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is a "religiocrit?"
|
|
A: Someone who has a special commission from upon high, or a special mandate
|
|
from their cult, to be a religious hypocrite. Examples are Duane Gish and
|
|
Henry Morris as well as just about 100% of all creationists.
|
|
|
|
Q: And "Contradictianity?"
|
|
A: This is a Christian belief that claims obvious, glaring, naked biblical
|
|
contradictions aren't.
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "Fundi Disk Failure?" (Also: "Sheenism")
|
|
A: We often get Christians on the echo who claim they will shortly, in a few
|
|
days, provide proof of their god's existence, or proof of a global flood, or
|
|
proof that Earth is flat, or proof that evolution didn't and isn't
|
|
occurring-- just to vanish at the appointed time, later showing up claiming
|
|
a "hard disk crash" ate their proof (I hate it when that happens!). The
|
|
first time someone made this claim, he blamed it on Satan. The next person
|
|
this happened to blamed it on his god, Jesus-- so they got us coming and
|
|
going, eh?
|
|
|
|
Q: What is "The Rupture?"
|
|
A: Every few months someone claims that their "Rapture" is imminent, and we
|
|
must all "get right" with his gods. This causes people to laugh so hard
|
|
they rupture a lower intestine. There have been claims of "imminent
|
|
rapture" for hundreds of years, the latest being May 5th, 2000.
|
|
|
|
There is even a Fundamentalist Christian text file telling us what to do
|
|
when we find we've been left behind. Ask David Rice if you'd like a copy.
|
|
|
|
Q: Why is evolution constantly a topic in HOLYSMOKE?
|
|
A: Goat Bile-ed if I know! This is probably because Creationists refuse to go
|
|
to the proper echo, called EVOLUTION, because there are several more
|
|
well-informed scientists there than in HOLYSMOKE. As yet, no Creationist
|
|
has failed to be properly corrected of their errors in HOLYSMOKE. There are
|
|
several highly knowledgeable people in HOLYSMOKE who can and do refute
|
|
Creationists claims. Now if the Creationists would just shut up long enough
|
|
to listen. . . .
|
|
|
|
Q: Are there any Satanists here?
|
|
A: None that I know of. The best estimate of the number of Satanists in
|
|
America is from 4,000 to 5,000 individuals ("Satan Wants You," by Arthur
|
|
Lyons), so the odds of one showing up is rather slim. Many of us wish one
|
|
or more would!
|
|
|
|
Q: Why don't you pick on Satanists like you pick on Christians and
|
|
Muslims?
|
|
A: For a couple of reasons. First off, we only "pick on" someone who makes
|
|
irrational and absurd claims while expecting us to believe them-- we've yet
|
|
to have a Satanist come along and do so. Second, and more importantly, it
|
|
is Christians who are subverting our secular nation through political means,
|
|
not Satanists (how many Satanists sue the State so they may lead students in
|
|
prayer?).
|
|
|
|
A: Do you see any Satanists going 'round spreading hatred such as this:
|
|
|
|
"Yes, even babies are born with aids. The innocent suffer all over the
|
|
world along with the guilty. If you knew the Bible you would know why."
|
|
- David Lewellyn
|
|
|
|
Q: Why do you hate God / Jesus?
|
|
A: Have you stopped beating your spouse? Do not make the mistake of believing
|
|
that attacks on stupidity is equal to an attack on a god just because the
|
|
person making the silly claim asserts he's speaking for his god. In the
|
|
three years I've read HOLYSMOKE I have yet to see a single person hate God
|
|
or Jesus-- just those who claim to be these gods followers. Many Christians
|
|
commit crimes in the name of their gods-- we don't blame their gods: we
|
|
blame the criminals.
|
|
|
|
Q: Are "flames" allowed?
|
|
A: Flames are EXPECTED. You will be treated with respect and courtesy if you
|
|
extend it. The most valuable contributors, who provide references to what
|
|
they say, are very seldom flamed -- if you don't like flames, stick to
|
|
posting what you know or can validate. Saying "Because I say so,"
|
|
"Because I was told so" or reading 'PROOF' where someone wrote 'EVIDENCE'
|
|
will turn you medium-rare.
|
|
A: From Dan Ceppa:
|
|
It, seriously, depends on how you look at it. There are times when a
|
|
"polite"
|
|
discourse just doesn'tget the message across. Then, the board between the
|
|
eyes to get your attention works.
|
|
|
|
Q: Will "Argument by authority" get me flamed?
|
|
A: Depends on the authority, and if you keep all quotes in context and content.
|
|
Claiming that several bright people support your assertions therefore your
|
|
assertions are true DOES NOT make it so. Don't quote an astronomer on
|
|
issues of biology, and a biologist on cosmology-- which is standard
|
|
Creationist tactics-- because you will get roasted. Saying "Einstein
|
|
believed in God (he didn't) therefore you should" will also get you
|
|
roasted-- bright people CAN and DO believe silly things; just because
|
|
someone is well educated in one field does not make hir an expert in other
|
|
fields.
|
|
|
|
Q: Does poor spelling get flamed?
|
|
A: Often we see theists who mix up "Their, there, and they're," "Too, to, and
|
|
two," "atheist" as "athiest," and "your" for "you're." They then in that
|
|
very same message proclaim to reveal the secrets of God, the Universe, Life
|
|
and all the Really Great Questions humans have pondered for a dozen
|
|
millennia-- somehow a crappy speller telling us they know what no one else
|
|
does just doesn't seem likely. If one does not know the difference between
|
|
"Their" and "they're" worth a Goat Belch, isn't it rather PRETENTIOUS for
|
|
one to be telling us all about how much one knows about god and the
|
|
universe?!
|
|
|
|
Q: What are the Dopefish mysteries?
|
|
A: "Swim. . . swim. . . hungry. . . swim. . . swim. . . hungry." The
|
|
rest is a secret, to be revealed to all shortly. Talk to the Chief
|
|
Proselytizer, Steve Quarrella, for all of the facts of this Up And Coming
|
|
Soon To Your Door religion.
|
|
|
|
Q: "What's wrong with Fundies?" - Bruce Kazee
|
|
A: From Don Martin:
|
|
|
|
"Not a thing. Unlike clay pigeons, they are capable of making amusing
|
|
howls whilst being shot down. HolySmoke would not be a better place
|
|
without them any more than a shooting gallery would be improved by
|
|
removing all the little tin ducks."
|
|
|
|
A: From Marty Leipzig:
|
|
|
|
"A more appropriate question would be 'What's right with fundies?'"
|
|
|
|
Q: What's this 'shitlist' I keep hearing about?
|
|
|
|
A: A short course in comparitive religion:
|
|
|
|
7TH DAY ADVENTIST Shit happens on Saturdays.
|
|
AGNOSTICISM Does shit exist?
|
|
AGNOSTICISM I don't know whether shit happens.
|
|
AMARICANISM I'll gladly pay through the nose for this shit.
|
|
APATHEISM Who gives a damn about this shit.
|
|
ATHEISM I don't believe this shit.
|
|
ATHEISM There is no shit!
|
|
BAHA'I Shi't ha'ppe'ns
|
|
BONZAI BOZOISM Make shit happen.. OH SHIT!!
|
|
BORN AGAIN Shit happens but I am saved.
|
|
BUDDHISM If shit happens, it isn't really shit.
|
|
BUDDHISM When shit happens, is it really shit?
|
|
BUSH A thousand points of shit.
|
|
CALVINISM If you're not saved, tough shit.
|
|
CASTRO We have to make this shit work somehow.
|
|
CATHOLICISM If shit happens, I deserve it.
|
|
CATHOLICISM Let shit happen to someone else.
|
|
CHRISTIAN SCIENTIST If shit happens, don't worry. It will go away on
|
|
its own time if you pray for it.
|
|
CHRISTIAN SCIENTIST Shit isn't real.
|
|
CONFUCIANISM Confucious say, "shit happens".
|
|
DEJA VUISM I've been through this shit before.
|
|
DEMOCRATISM How can we send a man to the moon and still have all
|
|
this shit.
|
|
DIANETICS You need to clear yourself of this shit.
|
|
EASTERN ORTHODOX Rome doesn't know shit.
|
|
EPISCOPALIAN Fecal matter occurs.
|
|
EVANGELISM Shit happens. (Pass it on.)
|
|
EXISTENTIAL I shit, therefore I sit.
|
|
FUNDAMENTALISM Born-again shit.
|
|
GERTRUDE STEIN A shit is a shit is a shit.
|
|
GORBACHEV That shit just didn't work.
|
|
HARE KRISHNA Shit happens rama rama ding ding.
|
|
HEDONISM When shit happens, enjoy it!
|
|
HINDUISM This shit happened before.
|
|
HOLISTIC There's more shit here than I figured on.
|
|
ISLAM If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
|
|
ISLAM We make shit happen to everybody else.
|
|
JAINISM Shit happens but don't step in it.
|
|
JEHOVAH'S WITLESS Do you want to buy a subscription to our shit?
|
|
JEHOVAH'S WITLESS Knock, knock. "shit Happens."
|
|
JESUITISM If shit happens and no one hears it, did it really
|
|
make a sound?
|
|
JIM JONESISM If shit happens, drink Kool-Aid.
|
|
JUDAISM Why does this shit always happen to us?
|
|
LAO-TZU It is utterly pointless to try to explain shit.
|
|
MINIMALIST Shit
|
|
MORMONISM Shit happens again & again & again.
|
|
It's evil to say "shit."
|
|
Wear your magic underware and this shit won't happen
|
|
NATIVE AMERICAN We want our shit back!
|
|
NEW AGE Crystal power counteracts shit.
|
|
NEW AGE Shit happens and it happens to smell good.
|
|
PENTACOSTALISM Praise the shit!
|
|
PROTESTANTISM If shit happens, you deserve it.
|
|
PROTESTANTISM This shit won't happen if I work harder.
|
|
RASTAFARIANISM Let's smoke this shit.
|
|
REPUBLICANISM There's nothing like a good shit. Flush the toilet.
|
|
RLDS Brigham is full of shit.
|
|
SATANISM Shit rules!
|
|
SCIENTOLOGY This shit is expensive.
|
|
SECULAR HUMANISM Shit evolves.
|
|
SHINTOISM Everything except Japan is shit.
|
|
STOICISM So shit happens, Big deal. I can take it.
|
|
TAOISM Shit happens.
|
|
TELEVANGELISM This shit won't happen if you donate $99.95 to me.
|
|
UNITARIAN Shit is all basically the same.
|
|
UNITARIAN What is this shit?
|
|
VEGETARIANISM I don't eat that shit!
|
|
ZEN What is the sound of shit happening?
|
|
|
|
Q: What other related echos are there?
|
|
A: A_THEIST, SKEPTIC (No religous discussion, please), HOLY_BIBLE, WHOLY_BIBLE,
|
|
BIBLE, OPEN_BIBLE, UFO, I_UFO, SRA, BAMA, FMS & CHURCH&STATE.
|
|
|
|
Q: What's this GOD$LOVE.GIF?
|
|
A: A child preparing to feed a bird. FREQ or D/L from Steve Quarrela's board.
|
|
|
|
Q: What's 'figure one?'
|
|
A:
|
|
|
|
_
|
|
/ \
|
|
|\_/|
|
|
|---|
|
|
| |
|
|
_ |=-=| _
|
|
/ \| |/ \
|
|
_ | | | |
|
|
/ \| | | ||\
|
|
| | | | | \>
|
|
| | | | | \
|
|
| - - - - |) )
|
|
| /
|
|
\ /
|
|
\ /
|
|
\ /
|
|
\ /
|
|
| |
|
|
| |
|
|
[Figure 1]
|
|
|
|
Q: What's the difference between philosophy and theology?
|
|
A: If you have an argument over philosophy, you get red in the face. Over
|
|
theology, you pull the trigger.
|
|
|
|
[Q & A stolen from David Rice]
|
|
|
|
Q: NOODLES???
|
|
A: Some time ago, a rather stupid fundi posted the folowing:
|
|
|
|
"I know another preacher who, along with his church, prayed that the LORD
|
|
would help a pot of noodles last through a social dinner, not only did they
|
|
last, not only did several take home a container full of noodles, but the
|
|
containers always stayed full. Finally, they had to throw them out, after
|
|
thanking the LORD of course. I have seen and heard of peoples lives changed
|
|
dramatically for the better, in ways that could only be called a miracle.
|
|
The LORD russles the leaves if you are willing listen." - Jerry Randall
|
|
|
|
This is where the "magic NOODLES" come from.
|
|
|
|
Q: What's "Hector's law?"
|
|
A: A fundi, given enough time, will debunk itself without outside
|
|
intervention. However, the fundi is often too stupid to know that it has
|
|
debunked itself.
|
|
|
|
Q: <Drool> Atheism kills! <drool>
|
|
A: From Kelsey Bjarnason:
|
|
I'd bet you can't find a _single_ instance in all of history of _anyone_
|
|
killing in the name of atheism or for a specifically atheist dogma.
|
|
However, history is rife with examples of killings specifically for and
|
|
because of Christianity.
|
|
|
|
Q: But x is ONLY a theory!
|
|
Q: Creationism is a theory! <stomp>
|
|
A: From Simon Ewins:
|
|
|
|
I realize that you appear to have almost no scientific education at all
|
|
but I am posting this and the next message in the hope that you may gain
|
|
an understanding of what a scientific theory is. All of these are used in
|
|
an attempt to explain a fact. The theory of evolution is used, according
|
|
to these criteria, to describe the fact of evolution. The theory of
|
|
gravity uses these criteria to describe the fact of gravity. When Einstein
|
|
proposed a new theory to explain gravity apples did not hang in mid-air
|
|
while waiting to see who was right, Einstein or Newton. The improvement or
|
|
alteration of the theory did not have any effect on the fact of gravity.
|
|
So it is with the fact of evolution. Please read on and discover what a
|
|
theory is...
|
|
|
|
A survey of the literature on the history, philosophy and sociology of
|
|
science reveals that there are at least four fundamental categories of
|
|
criteria by which theories are judged:
|
|
(1) logical criteria
|
|
(2) empirical criteria
|
|
(3) sociological criteria
|
|
(4) historical criteria.
|
|
|
|
There are four primary logical criteria for a theory. It must be:
|
|
(1.a) a simple, unifying idea that postulates nothing unnecessary
|
|
("Occam's Razor")
|
|
(1.b) logically consistent internally
|
|
(1.c) logically falsifiable (i.e., cases must exist in which the
|
|
theory could be imagined to be invalid)
|
|
(1.d) clearly limited by explicit stated boundary conditions so that
|
|
it is clear whether or not any particular data are or are not
|
|
relevant to the verification or falsification of the theory.
|
|
|
|
The need for these four criteria should be obvious upon reflection. An
|
|
idea that is too complex or deals with observations piecemeal can have no
|
|
practical explanatory value for a scientist. Theories must make clear
|
|
patterns of things and relationships between things. These patterns and
|
|
relationships must be internally logical and consistent since these are
|
|
required attributes of all sound explanations. The explanation must be
|
|
falsifiable, at least logically if not by actual experiment, or else
|
|
tautologies or other logically sterile constructions might be admissible
|
|
as theories. Finally, a theory must be limited by boundary conditions or
|
|
else there will be criteria for determining whether or not any particular
|
|
observation or experiments should or should not be explainable by the
|
|
theory. In fact, if a theory is totally unbounded, then it is not
|
|
possible to imagine any observation that is irrelevant to verifying the
|
|
theory. Thus, an unbounded theory would not be falsifiable. And, if a
|
|
theory cannot be falsified, it cannot be self-corrected. Yet
|
|
self-correctability is precisely the characteristic that gives scientific
|
|
theories their epistemological power: a theory that is incorrect or
|
|
incomplete can, by attempts to falsify it, reveal its faults or
|
|
limitations and so be corrected or extended.
|
|
|
|
Three empirical criteria are of primary importance as well. A theory must:
|
|
(2.a) be empirically testable itself or lead to predictions or
|
|
retrodictions that are testable
|
|
(2.b) actually make verified predictions and/or retrodictions
|
|
(2.c) concern reproducible results
|
|
(2.d) provide criteria for the interpretation of data as facts, artifacts,
|
|
anomalies, or as irrelevant.
|
|
|
|
The basic point is that not all data are valid for testing any particular
|
|
theory. Some data may be interpreted as factual (that is, they fall within
|
|
the boundary conditions specified by the theory and verify its predictions
|
|
or retrodictions); some may be artifactual (that is, the result of
|
|
secondary or accidental influences lying outside the boundaries set for
|
|
the validity of the theory); some are anomalous (that is, demonstrably
|
|
valid within the bounds of the theory, but also at odds with predictions
|
|
or retrodictions made by the theory); some are irreproducible and so,
|
|
invalid; and some are irrelevant since they address the theory not at all.
|
|
|
|
Once again, the necessity of these criteria should be relatively
|
|
self-evident. It is possible to imagine theories that are logically
|
|
falsifiable but experimentally untestable (as when the technology does not
|
|
exist to convert the logical test into an empirical test). Such a theory
|
|
cannot be either verified or falsified and so is useless in practice to an
|
|
experimental scientist. One can, at best, only leave such empirically
|
|
untestable ideas in the scientific purgatory of doubt. A theory must also
|
|
limit what may possibly be observed in the universe. Otherwise, one would
|
|
not know what to look for, where, how to look for it, under what
|
|
conditions, or know whether what one saw was relevant or irrelevant to the
|
|
theory. If everything is possible under an explanation, then no tests for
|
|
it can exist.
|
|
|
|
A theory must also make verified predictions and retrodictions to validate
|
|
itself. It is possible otherwise to imagine theories that make predictions
|
|
and retrodictions all of which are falsified. A theory whose predictions
|
|
and retrodictions are falsified, either by the prior existence of relevant
|
|
data or the subsequent discovery of relevant data, cannot be considered a
|
|
valid theory. It is in need of correction or extension. And, of course, a
|
|
theory based upon irreproducible results is, in effect, invalidated by the
|
|
very fact that the results cannot be reproduced - for either the boundary
|
|
conditions governing the collection of the data have not been properly set,
|
|
or the original data may have been due simply to coincidence rather than
|
|
any mechanism proposed by the theory.
|
|
|
|
Sociological criteria also exist for determining the validity of a theory.
|
|
A theory must:
|
|
|
|
(3.a) resolve recognized problems, paradoxes, and/or anomalies irresolvable
|
|
on the basis of preexisting scientific theories
|
|
(3.b) pose a new set of scientific problems upon which scientists may work
|
|
(3.c) posit a "paradigm" or problem-solving model by which these new
|
|
problems may be expected to be resolved
|
|
(3.d) provide definitions of concepts or operations beneficial to the
|
|
problem-solving abilities of other scientists.
|
|
|
|
Once again, the need for these criteria is manifest. An idea that does
|
|
not resolve any recognized scientific problems cannot be called a
|
|
scientific theory. It can have no effect upon the research activity of
|
|
scientists. Similarly, an explanation that does not pose new problems
|
|
does not allow scientists to learn anything they were unable to learn
|
|
before. A theory therefore has no sociological value unless it provides a
|
|
model for new or more efficient sorts of scientific activity. Thus, a
|
|
theory must be stated in terms that are operationally useful to the
|
|
community of scientists who might use the theory. If the definitions or
|
|
concepts upon which the theory is based are not operationally useful, then
|
|
the explanation says nothing experimentally verifiable about nature. Such
|
|
an explanation cannot, therefore, be scientific.
|
|
|
|
Finally, there is a fourth set of theory criteria as well: historical
|
|
ones. A theory must:
|
|
|
|
(4.a) meet or surpass all of the criteria set by its predecessors or
|
|
demonstrate that any abandoned criteria are artifactual
|
|
(4.b) be able to accrue the epistemological status acquired by previous
|
|
theories through their history of testing or, put another way, be able
|
|
to explain all of the data gathered under previous relevant theories
|
|
in terms either of fact or artifact (no anomalies allowed)
|
|
(4.c) be consistent with all preexisting ancillary theories that already
|
|
have established scientific validity.
|
|
|
|
These criteria are necessary to ensure that theories are correctable.
|
|
Correctability, in turn, ensures the increase in explanatory power of
|
|
scientific theories with time, and promotes the consistency and
|
|
integration of all scientific explanations, without such criteria,
|
|
scientists would be free to pick and choose data that favor their
|
|
explanations while ignoring previously recorded evidence and theories that
|
|
falsify their own ideas. The historical criteria make such unscientific
|
|
procedures nearly impossible. The historical records of each science stand
|
|
as a monument to the series of tests any new theory must pass to prove its
|
|
mettle against the accumulated knowledge of nature. The longer a science
|
|
has existed, the greater the accumulated knowledge concerning any
|
|
particular aspect of nature. Consequently, the more difficult it becomes
|
|
to reformulate all of that knowledge into a new and consistent framework.
|
|
[Robert Root-Bernstein]
|
|
|
|
In short, fundi, if you have a better theory of how the diversity of
|
|
species came to be as they are on this planet you must fit it into the
|
|
above (and preceding) framework. While your theory is being tested and
|
|
evaluated the diversity of species will remain as they now are. The facts
|
|
that are manifest under the banner of evolution will not go away while
|
|
your theory is being developed. If you can come up with a theory to explain
|
|
the fact of evolution that fits these criteria I will accept it... but
|
|
_only_ if you can do so and not before.
|
|
|
|
Q: "Argumentum ad ignorantum?" Excuse me?
|
|
A: Here are just a few of the fallacies that many fundies have thrown about in
|
|
this echo masquerading as logic:
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD IGNORANTIUM
|
|
|
|
Argumentum ad ignorantium means "argument from ignorance". This fallacy
|
|
occurs whenever it is argued that something must be true simply because it
|
|
has not been proved false. Or, equivalently, when it is argued that
|
|
something must be false because it has not been proved true. (Note that
|
|
this is not the same as assuming that something is false until it has been
|
|
proved true, a basic scientific principle.)
|
|
|
|
Examples:
|
|
|
|
"Of course the Bible is true. Nobody can prove otherwise."
|
|
|
|
"Of course telepathy and other psychic phenomena do not exist. Nobody has
|
|
shown any proof that they are real."
|
|
|
|
Note that this fallacy does not apply in a court of law, where one is
|
|
generally
|
|
assumed innocent until proven guilty.
|
|
|
|
Also, in scientific investigation if it is known that an event would
|
|
produce certain evidence of its having occurred, the absence of such evidence
|
|
can validly be used to infer that the event did not occur. For example:
|
|
|
|
"A flood as described in the Bible would require an enormous volume of water
|
|
to
|
|
be present on the earth. The earth does not have a tenth as much water, even
|
|
if we count that which is frozen into ice at the poles. Therefore no such
|
|
flood occurred."
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD NUMERAM
|
|
|
|
This fallacy is closely related to the argumentum ad populum. It consists
|
|
of asserting that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the
|
|
more likely it is that that proposition is correct.
|
|
|
|
"The Bible must be true. Millions of people know that it is. Are you trying
|
|
to tell them that they are all mistaken fools?"
|
|
|
|
"Eat shit. Ten million flys can't be wrong."
|
|
|
|
SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF
|
|
|
|
The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or
|
|
proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum
|
|
ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person
|
|
who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the
|
|
fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.
|
|
|
|
Short form: Don't attempt to prove a negatives. Unless you're an idiot.
|
|
|
|
ACCENTUS
|
|
|
|
Description: A Fallacy of Ambiguity, where the ambiguity arises from
|
|
the emphasis (accent) placed on a word or phrase.
|
|
|
|
AFFIRMATION OF THE CONSEQUENT
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument from the truth of a hypothetical statement,
|
|
and the truth of the consequent to the truth of the antecedent. In
|
|
the syllogism below, P is the antecedent and Q is the consequent:
|
|
|
|
P implies Q
|
|
Q is true <-- Affirming the consequent
|
|
______________
|
|
Therefore: P is true
|
|
|
|
Example: The Bible implies god, therefore, god is true.
|
|
|
|
AMBIGUITY
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in the course of which at least one term is
|
|
used in different senses. Also known as equivocation. There are
|
|
several types of "fallacies of ambiguity," including REIFICATION,
|
|
EQUIVOCATION, AMPHIBOLY, COMPOSITION, DIVISION, and
|
|
ACCENTUS.
|
|
|
|
AMPHIBOLY
|
|
|
|
Description: A type of Fallacy of Ambiguity where the ambiguity
|
|
involved is of an "amphibolous" (equivocal, uncertain) nature.
|
|
Amphiboly is a syntactic error. The fallacy is caused by faulty
|
|
sentence structure, and can result in a meaning not intended by
|
|
the author. "The department store now has pants for men with
|
|
32 waists." (How many waists do you have? I have only one!)
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD ANTIQUITAM
|
|
|
|
Description: A fallacy of asserting that something is right or good
|
|
simply because it is old; that is, because "that's the way it's always
|
|
been."
|
|
|
|
Example: The Bible is 2000 years old! It /MUST/ be true!
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD BACULUM
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument that resorts to the threat of force to cause
|
|
the acceptance of the conclusion. Ad baculum arguments also
|
|
include threats of fear to cause acceptance.
|
|
|
|
Example: You'll go to hell if you don't follow my loving god.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD CRUMENAM
|
|
|
|
Description: Fallacy of believing that money is a criterion of
|
|
correctness; that those with more money are more likely to be
|
|
right.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM (AKA Flame)
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument that attempts to disprove the truth of what
|
|
is asserted by attacking the speaker rather than the speaker's
|
|
argument. Another way of putting it: Fallacy where you attack
|
|
someone's character instead of dealing with salient issues. There
|
|
are two basic types of ad hominem arguments: (1) abusive, and
|
|
(2) circumstantial.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD LAZARUM
|
|
|
|
Description: A fallacy of assuming that because someone is poor he
|
|
or she is sounder or more virtuous than one who is wealthier. This
|
|
fallacy is the opposite of the informal fallacy "argumentum ad
|
|
crumenam."
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD MISERICORDIAM
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument that appeals to pity for the sake of getting
|
|
a conclusion accepted.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD NAUSEUM
|
|
|
|
Description: The incorrect belief that an assertion is more likely to
|
|
be true the more often it is heard. An "argumentum ad nauseum"
|
|
is one that employs constant repitition in asserting a truth.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD NOVITAM
|
|
|
|
Description: A fallacy of asserting that something is more correct
|
|
simply because it is new or newer than something else. Or that
|
|
something is better because it is newer. This type of fallacy is the
|
|
opposite of the "argumentum ad antiquitam" fallacy.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument that appeals to the beliefs of the multitude
|
|
(i.e., the "populace"). Another way of putting it: Speaker deals
|
|
with passions of audience rather than with salient issues. This
|
|
fallacy is also known as "Appeal to Tradition" Ad populum arguments
|
|
often occur in (1) propaganda, (2) demagoguery, and (3) advertising.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD VERECUNDIAM
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in which an authority is appealed to on
|
|
matters outside his/her field of authority. "Ad verecundiam" also
|
|
refers to a fallacy of simply resorting to appeals to authority.
|
|
|
|
BEGGING THE QUESTION (CIRCULAR REASONING)
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument that assumes as part of its premises the
|
|
very conclusion that is supposed to be true. Another way of saying
|
|
this is: Fallacy of assuming at the onset of an argument the very point
|
|
you are trying to prove. The fallacy is also sometimes referred to
|
|
as "Circulus in Probando." This Fallacy is also known by the Latin
|
|
"PETITIO PRINCIPII".
|
|
|
|
Example: The Bible is true because god said it was. I know god is real
|
|
becase the Bible said so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
BIFURCATION
|
|
|
|
Description: Also referred to as the "black and white" fallacy,
|
|
bifurcation is the presentation of a situation or condition with
|
|
only two alternatives, whereas in fact other alternatives exist or
|
|
can exist.
|
|
|
|
COMPOSITION
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in which one assumes that a whole has
|
|
a property solely because its various parts have that property.
|
|
Composition is a type of Fallacy of Ambiguity.
|
|
|
|
CONVERTING A CONDITIONAL
|
|
|
|
Description: If P then Q, therefore, if Q then P.
|
|
|
|
Example: Hitler used evolution, therefore, everyone who follows evolution
|
|
supports Hitler.
|
|
|
|
CUM HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC
|
|
|
|
Description: A fallacy of correlation that links events because they
|
|
occur simultaneously; one asserts that because two events occur
|
|
together they are causally related, and leaves no room for other
|
|
factors that may be the cause(s) of the events. This fallacy is similar
|
|
to the "post hoc" fallacy.
|
|
|
|
DENIAL OF THE ANTECEDENT
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in which one infers the falsity of the
|
|
consequent from the truth of a hypothetical proposition, and the
|
|
falsity of its antecedent.
|
|
|
|
P implies Q
|
|
Not-P
|
|
____________
|
|
Therefore: Not-Q
|
|
|
|
DIVISION
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in which one assumes that various parts
|
|
have a property solely because the whole has that same property.
|
|
Division is a type of Fallacy of Ambiguity.
|
|
|
|
EQUIVOCATION
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in which an equivocal expression is used in
|
|
one sense in one premise and in a different sense in another premise,
|
|
or in the conclusion. Equivocal means (1) of uncertain significance;
|
|
not determined, and (2) having different meanings equally possible.
|
|
Equivocation is a type of Fallacy of Ambiguity. The opposite of
|
|
equivocation is "unovocation," in which a word always carries the
|
|
same meaning through a given context.
|
|
|
|
FALLACY OF INTERROGATION
|
|
|
|
Description: The question asked has a presuppostion which the
|
|
answerer may wish to deny, but which he/she would be accepting
|
|
if he/she gave anything that would count as an answer. Any answer
|
|
to the question "Why does such-and-such happen?" presupposes that
|
|
such-and-such does indeed happen.
|
|
|
|
FALSE ANALOGY
|
|
|
|
Description: An analogy is a partial similarity between the like features
|
|
of two things or events on which a comparison can be made. A
|
|
false analogy involves comparing two things that are NOT similar.
|
|
Note that the two things may be similar in superficial ways, but
|
|
not with respect to what is being argued.
|
|
|
|
SECUNDUM QUID (HASTY GENERALIZATION)
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in which a proposition is used as a
|
|
premise without attention given to some obvious condition that
|
|
would affect the proposition's application. This fallacy is also known
|
|
as the "hasty generalization." It is a fallacy that takes evidence
|
|
from several, possibly unrepresentative, cases to a general rule;
|
|
generalizing from few to many. Note the relation to statistics: Much
|
|
of statistics concerns whether or not a sample is representative of a
|
|
larger population. The larger the sample size, the better the
|
|
representativeness. Note also that the opposite of a hasty generalization
|
|
is a sweeping generalization.
|
|
|
|
IGNORATIO ELENCHI
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument that is supposed to prove one proposition
|
|
but succeeds only in proving a different one. Ignoratio elenchi stands
|
|
for "pure and simple irrelevance."
|
|
|
|
ILLICIT PROCESS
|
|
|
|
Description: A syllogistic argument in which a term is distributed in
|
|
the conclusion, but not in the premises. One of the rules for a valid
|
|
categorical syllogism is that if either term is distributed in the
|
|
conclusion, then it must be distributed in the premises. There are
|
|
two types of Illicit Process: Illicit Process of the Major Term and
|
|
Illicit Process of the Minor Term.
|
|
|
|
PLURIUM INTERROGATIONUM (MANY QUESTIONS)
|
|
|
|
Description: A demand for a simple answer to a complex question.
|
|
|
|
Example: The US schools are going down the drain because the school day
|
|
is no longer started with a prayer.
|
|
|
|
NON CAUSA PRO CAUSA
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument to reject a proposition because of the falsity
|
|
of some other proposition that seems to be a consequence of the first,
|
|
but really is not.
|
|
|
|
NON-SEQUITUR
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument in which the conclusion is not a necessary
|
|
consequence of the premises. Another way of putting this is: A
|
|
conclusion drawn from premises that provide no logical connection
|
|
to it.
|
|
|
|
PETITIO PRINCIPII
|
|
|
|
Description: Same as "Begging the Question" The argument assumes
|
|
its conclusion is true but DOES NOT SHOW it to be true. Petitio principii
|
|
has two forms:
|
|
|
|
1. P is true, because P is true.
|
|
2. P is true, because A is true. And A is true because B is true.
|
|
And B is true because P is true.
|
|
|
|
Similar to circular reasoning.
|
|
|
|
POST HOC, ERGO PROPTER HOC
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument from a premise of the form "A preceded B" to
|
|
a conclusion of the form "A caused B." Simply because one event
|
|
precedes another event in time does not mean that the first event is
|
|
the cause of the second event. This argument resembles a fallacy known
|
|
as a Hasty Generalization.
|
|
|
|
QUATERNIO TERMINORUM
|
|
|
|
Description: An argument of the syllogistic form in which there occur
|
|
four or more terms. In a standard categorical syllogism there are
|
|
only three terms: a subject, a predicate, and a middle term.
|
|
|
|
RED HERRING
|
|
|
|
Description: A fallacy when irrelevant material is introduced to the
|
|
issue being discussed, such that everyone's attention is diverted
|
|
away from the points being made, and toward a different conclusion.
|
|
It is not logically valid to divert a chain of reasoning with
|
|
extraneous points.
|
|
|
|
REIFICATION
|
|
|
|
Description: To reify something is to convert an abstract concept into
|
|
a concrete thing. Reification is a Fallacy of Ambiguity. Reification is
|
|
also sometimes known as a fallacy of "hypostatization".
|
|
|
|
SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF (AKA Fundi shuffle)
|
|
|
|
Description: The burden of proof is always on the person making
|
|
the assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special
|
|
case of "argumentum ad ignorantium," is a fallacy of putting the
|
|
burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion
|
|
being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something
|
|
is true unless proven otherwise.
|
|
|
|
SPECIAL PLEADING (DOUBLE STANDARD)
|
|
|
|
Description: Special pleading is a logical fallacy wherein a double
|
|
standard is employed by the person making the assertion.
|
|
Special pleading typically happens when one insists upon less
|
|
strict treatment for the argument he/she is making than he or
|
|
she would make when evaluating someone else's arguments.
|
|
|
|
STRAW MAN
|
|
|
|
Description: It is a fallacy to misrepresent someone else's position
|
|
for the purposes of more easily attacking it, then to knock down
|
|
that misrepresented position, and then to conclude that the
|
|
original position has been demolished. It is a fallacy because it
|
|
fails to deal with the actual arguments that one has made.
|
|
|
|
Example: Evolution says humans evolved from monkeys.
|
|
|
|
SWEEPING GENERALIZATION
|
|
|
|
Description: Also known by the Latin term "DICTO SIMPLICITER",
|
|
a Sweeping Generalization occurs when a general rule is applied to
|
|
a particular situation in which the features of that particular
|
|
situation render the rule inapplicable. A sweeping generalization
|
|
is the opposite of a hasty generalization.
|
|
|
|
TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT (TU QUOQUE)
|
|
|
|
Description: Two wrongs never add up to a right; you cannot right
|
|
a wrong by applying yet another wrong. Such a fallacy is a
|
|
misplaced appeal to consistency. It is a fallacy because it makes
|
|
no attempt to deal with the subject under discussion.
|
|
|
|
UNDISTRIBUTED MIDDLE
|
|
|
|
Description: A syllogistic argument in which the middle term of
|
|
a categorical syllogism is not distributed in at least one of the
|
|
premises.
|
|
|
|
ARGUMENTUM AD BOZM NON-CHRISTI
|
|
|
|
Description: This is the falacy that a Christian cannot commit any crime
|
|
or ethicly irresponsible act. See "not true christian."
|
|
|
|
C. J. Henshaw - Fidonet: 1:250/820 - Internet: cjh@tcsconcordia.tor250.org
|
|
Coridon Henshaw - Fidonet: 1:250/820 - Internet: csbh@tcsconcordia.tor250.org
|
|
|
|
Brown-nose, Network! Ass kissing for Jesus!
|