635 lines
38 KiB
Plaintext
635 lines
38 KiB
Plaintext
FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 128
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ******************* REMOVED: 27 AUG 83 *******************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ========================================
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24
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25 Another disk bites the dust.........
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26 &%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%%&%&%&%&%&%&%
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27 Shouldn't that be 'Bytes'?
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28 ****** CISTOP MIKEY (GROAN.....) ***** 21 AUG 83 **** 2:14PM ******
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29 Picture a man on a street corner with a sign around his
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30 neck, his hat in his outstreached hand.....
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31 On the sign it reads: "UNSUCESFILL RITER"
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32 Need I say more...............
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33 ()()()()()()()()8)()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()(()()()
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34
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35 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
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36 Ahem....
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37 If a person who sends his child to private school gets back the taxes it
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38 would have cost to send the child to public school..... Do I, who have no
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39 children, also get back my taxes? (actually, I don't have 12 kids, so send
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40 me 12 refunds....)
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41 the Phantom Glitch, 8/21/83
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42
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43 _/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\_/|\
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44 -----
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45 This disk is getting off to a sloooooooooow start.....
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46 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
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47 HEE,HEE, NOT BAD GLITCH.
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48
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49 MIKEY, I KNEW ABOUT GERMANY, BUT I WAS MAKING A POINT ABOUT VERY CAPI-
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50 TALISTIC COUNTRIES LIKE HONG KONG (IRONICALLY RUN BY THE BRITISH) NOT
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51 SOCIALISTIC EUROPEAN COUNTRIES LIKE GERMANY THAT THE ANTI-TAX CONTINGENT
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52 WOULD DISMISS OUT OF HAND AS BEING PRO-TAX.
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53 CONCERNING STEEL MILLS THERE ARE SEVERAL REASONS FOR U.S. STEEL
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54 THE COMPANY, NOT THE COUNTRY, BEING IN SUCH TROUBLE.
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55 1. THE BIG OLD STEEL PLANTS IN THIS COUNTRY HAD SOME OF THE HIGHEST
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56 PAID WORKERS IN THE WORLD AND STILL DO. WAGES ARE STILL QUITE
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57 IMPORTANT IN THE STEEL BUSINESS. SOME SMALL STEEL MAKERS IN THIS COUNTRY
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58 ARE DOING QUITE WELL, BUT THEY PAY 1/3 LESS THAN U.S. STEEL
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59 2. THE TECHNOLOGY AT U.S. STEEL IS OLDER - THE NEW TECHNOLOGY REQUIRES
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60 MANY FEWER WORKERS.
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61 3. STEEL PRODUCTION IS A LOW LEVEL INDUSTRIAL ACTIVITY. STEEL PRODUCED
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62 BY ARTISANS TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO LIKE DAMASCUS STEEL IS QUITE
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63 COMPARABLE TO MODERN SPECIALTY STEELS. 95% OF STEEL PRODUCED DOES NOT NEED
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64 TO BE BETTER THAN THAT. THE JAPANESE HAVE THE BEST STEEL PRODUCTION
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65 TECHNOLOGY KNOWN, BUT THEY ARE GETTING RID OF THEIR MILLS AND LICENSING
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66 THE TECHNOLOGY. THEY BELIEVE THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY IS APPROPRIATE TO
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67 A COUNTRY LIKE ZAMBIA OR MEXICO. EVEN KOREA IS POISED TO TAKE SIMILAR
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68 MEASURES. ALSO, THEY KNOW THAT THE ACTUAL PRODUCTION OF STEEL DOESN'T
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69 TAKE VERY MANY HIGH LEVEL PEOPLE, AND SO THAT PRODUCTION OF STEEL
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70 IN CONTRAST TO PLANT DESIGN WILL CONTINUE TO BE WAGE SENSITIVE AS LONG
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71 AS THE STEEL MARKET IS A WORLD MARKET.
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72
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73 4. THEY KNOW THAT NEWER EQUIPMENT DESIGNS WILL FURTHER REDUCE THE
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74 REQUIREMENT FOR LABOR, PUTTING PEOPLE OUT OF JOBS. THEY WOULD RATHER
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75 BE THE COUNTRY FULL OF ENGINEERS, RATHER THAN THE COUNTRY FULL
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76 OF UNEMPLOYED DISPLACED BY NEW TECHNOLOGY. IN THIS WAY THEY EXPORT
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77 THE UNEMPLOYMENT CAUSED BY THEIR INNOVATIONS.
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78
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79 WHAT LEWIS MUMFORD PREDICTED MORE THAN 50 YEARS AGO IS NOW HAPPENING.
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80 I REFER TO HIS BOOK TECHNICS AND CIVILIZATION. HE SAID THAT THERE
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81 WOULD BE THREE PHASES TO THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, WHICH HE SAID STARTED
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82 IN THE EARLY MIDDLE AGES. HE CALLED THESE PHASES NEOTECHNIC, PALEOTECHNIC,
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83 AND EOTECHNIC. IN THE LAST PHASE (CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH IT IS, EO OR NEO AND
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84 AM TOO LAZY TO GO GET THE BOOK RIGHT NOW) INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION WAS SUPPO-
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85 SED TO GO FROM MASS PRODUCTION OF LOOK-ALIKES TO THE SPECIALIZED
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86 PRODUCTION OF UNIQUE OR LIMITED EDITION ITEMS (AMONG OTHER THINGS). THE
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87 OLDER MEANS OF PRODUCTION, THE LARGE SCALE MASS-PRODUCTION FACILITIES
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88 WOULD EITHER CLOSE DOWN OR BE CONVERTED TO THE PRODUCTION OF MORE
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89 HIGHLY INDIVIDUALIZED SPECIALTY PRODUCTS. THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE VERY
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90 FEW PEOPLE. THIS PRODUCTION WOULD BE VERY HIGH-TECH BUT THE 'TECH' WOULD
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91 TEND TO BE INCONSPICUOUS (ALA AURTHUR C CLARKE). MASS PRODUCTION
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92 FACILITIES THAT STILL EXISTED WOULD BE MOVED TO RURAL AREAS AND MORE
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93 PRIMITIVE NATIONS.
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94
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95 THE JAPANESE KNOW ALL ABOUT THIS. THAT'S WHY WHEN THEY MAKE DEALS WITH
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96 U.S. AUTO MAKERS TO PRODUCE TOYOTAS OVER HERE THEY ARE NOT DOING US
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97 SUCH A GREAT FAVOR, THOUGH IT WOULD BE CHEAPER FOR THEM IN BRASIL OR
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98 BOLIVIA. THEY ARE MERELY EXPORTING OUTDATED MEANS OF PRODUCTION AND
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99 KEEPING THE HIGH LEVEL JOBS AND THE MONEY.
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100
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101 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE, BUSINESS WEEK, AND SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN HAVE ALL
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102 CARRIED ARTICLES ON THIS LATELY (LAST SIX MONTHS?)
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103
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104 SO THE ANSWER IS NOT MERELY MODERNIZING AND RETRAINING. IT'S ALSO
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105 GETTING RID OF YESTERDAY'S INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION (ALONG WITH IT'S
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106 OFFSPRING OF 60 YEARS AGO THAT WE'VE BEEN DEBATING HERE LATELY,"SCIENTIFIC"
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107 MANAGMENT).
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108
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109 PERHAPS WE OUGHT NOT BE PUTTING ALL OUR MONEY IN NEWER WAYS OF DOING THE
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110 SAME OLD THINGS. SHURELY NOT EVEN MOST OF US CAN BE PROGRAMMERS
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111 AND ROBOT TECHNICIANS. THESE CATAGORIES MAY BE EXTINCT IN 20 YEARS.
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112
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113 MAYBE THE *REAL* JOBS OF THE FUTURE ARE HIGH TECH (OR LOW TECH) ARTISTS,
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114 SCIENTISTS, DANCERS, WAITERS, STREET MUSICIANS. ATHELETES, ASTRONAUTS -
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115 BUT I'M SURE I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO GUESS WHAT.
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116
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117 THE ABOVE JOBS ARE LABOR INTENSIVE AND CREATIVE. STRESS ON LABOR INTENSIVE,
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118 BECAUSE WE HAVE ENTERED A PHASE OF TECHNOLOGY IN MASS PRODUCTION WHERE
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119 PEOPLE ARE PHASED OUT VERY QUICKLY.
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120
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121 BUT THE SOCIETY WILL HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT THE PRODUCTS OF THESE PEOPLE
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122 ARE WORTH BUYING, AND MAYBE OTHER LARGE SCALE ATTITUDE CHANGES ARE NECESSARY.
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123 REMEMBER THAT THE MOVIES ARE STILL ONE OF OUR BEST EXPORTS.
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124 THEY ARE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HIGH TECH LABOR INTENSIVE ART. PROGRAMMING
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125 MIGHT BE A BETTER ONE (TYPICALLY ONLY RELATIVELY FEW COPIES OF A PROGRAM
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126 ARE SOLD AND MOST OF THOSE MAY BE MODIFIED BY THE CUSTOMER OR THE PRODUCER.
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127 MANY OR MAYBE MOST PROGRAMS ARE NOW DESIGNED TO BE MODIFIED. THIS IS
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128 EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING MUMFORD WAS TALKING ABOUT)
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129
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130 ANYHOW,....................... CHUCK
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131 P.S. DON'T AGREE THAT MORE JOBS WERE CREATED BY INDUSTRY AFTER TECHNOLOG-
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132 ICAL INNOVATIONS. CARE TO DEBATE?
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133 BYE NOW,
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134 ............................................................................
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135
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136
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137
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138
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139 The fact that US steel companies seem to be inefficient may not
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140 be their fault. Sure, they pay very high wages, but here's why: The govt.
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141 has (for the last 50 years, at least) been very pro-union, because
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142 (obviously) unions are people-rich and people each have one vote. The
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143 actions of the govt. (NLRB) are to force wage concessions that are
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144 not justified by the market. When steel companies are otherwise inclined
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145 to hold out, the govt. threatens.
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146 So eventually the average wage rises to the point that US steel
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147 isn't competitive any more, and everyone points their finger at the
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148 companies.
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149 }{{}{}{{{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{{}{}{}{}{}{}{{}{}{}{
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150 CHUCK:
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151 You simply stated in far more eligent terms what I said on the other disk.
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152 (re: US Steel.) As for debating, sorry no, I just like to blow off steam
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153 now and then. As for the jobs issue, suggest you read up on the Luddites
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154 of England. They felt the same way as you. (No, I'm not calling you a Luddite.)
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155 ***** CISTOP MIKEY (SORT OF) ****** 21 AUG 83 **************************
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156 P.S. After rereading what I said, I find that there maybe a misinterpitation
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157 of what I said. In that I stated that 'more' jobs would become available.
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158 By this I did not mean to say that even more jobs then the current average
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159 would be created, but rather that on an average for every job that disappears,
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160 another wil take its place. Thru the yyears, the average number of jobs as
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161 a percentage of those working verses those not has not really changed
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162 significantly. What has changed is the definition of what is a job. Or maybe
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163 I should restate that to what is not a job I.E. Unemployed. The very term
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164 'unemployed' now has very bad conotations. Yet at one time it meant
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165 independence. My how times have changed... Of course nowadays we call it
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166 selfemployed and it is much harder to do because of all the gorvernment
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167 red tape and such. Say there is a thought for you debaters to tackle.
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168 Is all the red tape and hassle from the government a result of the mass
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169 production industry needing workers (therefor needing to strangle out
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170 the unattached so as to make them come and work for the mass producers.)
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171 or is it the result of some other insidious plot to overthrow the
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172 capitalist warmongering state?
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173 ***********************************************************************
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174 P.P.S. I thought I wasn't going to do any debating!
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175 ************************************************************************
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176 -------------------------------------------
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177 It seems to me that what we are actually seeing here is the
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178 first ripples of that 'golden age' of full leasure time that has been a SF favorite for so many years.
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179 The basic problem though is even though we are on the edge of not having
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180 to work for a liveing in the traditional sense theres no method evolving for people to 'make a liveing'.
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181 Paul
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182 ------------------------------------------------
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183
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184 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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185
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186 With our society working around the basis of paying our own way, and our economy based on consumerism, how is the
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187 average person going to have the necessary income to support themselves or be good consumers as we shift from the
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188 standard "job" to the self-employed. Our economy is geared around a large employed population ready to spend money on
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189 the goods produced. Businesses will have to change their focus, and those that depend entirely on consumerism (such
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190 as the retail apparel trade) will probably find it rough. It sounds like a massive restructuring of our economy is in
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191 the offing, but I'm not sure of how so many unemployed people will survive. We need artisans, entertainers, atheletes,
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192 etc., but we probably won't have enough of these positions available for the numbers involved. So what do these
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193 people do? Kurt Vonnegut wrote a book called "Player Piano" about such a culture, and he seemed to think that the
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194 chief effect would be incredible boredom for most of those unemployed, combined with lowered self-esteem. Many people
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195 still believe in the work ethic, and measure their own personal worth by their work. I'm sure most of us are that way
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196 too. People such as this that enjoy work would soon find something to do, whether they could make a living from it or
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197 not. But they might still be hungry. How might we solve this?
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198 /Elberich\
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199 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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200
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201 BAD: I completely agree with your last comment on drive 'B'. You said what I
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202 was attempting to say earlier, but seemed to say it much more clearly...I am
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203 refering, obviously, to the relationship of marginal cost to average cost.
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204
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205 Mr. Eastlund...are you still out there, have you left any comments or did
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206 you just not sign your name to them?? It would be nice if everyone sign there
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207 messages with some identifying mark, and remain consistant! I know of some
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208 names that are the same person!
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209
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210 P.S. I resent the assumption that all computer hackers are relativly ugly!
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211 I don't consider myself the best looking person in the world, but I don't think
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212 that I am ugly...am I a minority???
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213
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214 Post-P.S. I can tell that we are all such good spelers!
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215 Speaking (typing) of school...What do all you computer related people think
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216 about the local school districts going head over heals into computer science?
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217 I am talking about the high school-level...but grade schools/junior highs have
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218 also delged deeply into the computer field. For instance, Reynolds school district just spent $56,000 on some new Apple
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219 IIe computers (what a mistake!). The district bought some 36 new Apple computers
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220 and, at the same time, sold all the rest of the computers (non-Apple) that the
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221 district owned! The man responsible for this is Earl Phyllips, a "computer
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222 expert" at Columbia High school.
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223
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224 Hee, Hee, Hee, wait until he meets me!!!!
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225 I am in favor of the expenditure (not necessarily the brand of computer) toward
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226 the computer science program...what does everyone else think???
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227
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228
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229 The sysm...system manager (big deal!), Reynolds High school...
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230 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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231 To SYSM FROM TRON
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232 Hello once again! Yes, our schools just bought 13 apples
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233 also. I wish the'd get a computer of a much higher value than
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234 an E!?!? The Apple IIe is just a cheap imitation of the Apple
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235 II+ except with about 3 extra frills thrown in plus they charge
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236 about 500 dollars more than the + costs. The only computer Apple
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237 ever put out and ever will put out was the Apple II+. It's a
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238 real good one. Personally I think that the LISA is a big
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239 failure because of the built in software. If you could get rid
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240 of that, it would be a GREAT computer. I think I'll just go an
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241 buy a TRS-80 Model 16........
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242
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243 TRON
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244 ............................................................
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245 On the school/property tax etc discussion: I'm waiting for the fireworks to start in California. It seems that they had an
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246 INCREDIBLE budget surplus at the time Prop 13 passed. They have been "living" off of this ever since. I understand that the
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247 deficits started last spring...........
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248 On unions/wages/automation: If your local store keeps
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249 raising the price of some NECESSITY on you, you will either find another store, try to do without, or make it yourself....
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250 RIGHT? So while there MAY be some companies that are gouging the
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251 workers (not many with current laws!), in most cases labor wants more than the company can afford (sooner or later) thus they
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252 get their jobs automated out from under them. I find it hard to
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253 believe some of the pay rates I have heard ($20/hr!). I hope that some day labor will realize that their constant pay raises
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254 are why they need constant pay raises! As someone said earlier,
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255 the laws are VERY pro-union. I wish someone would try to do a
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256 COMPLETE economic model on one of the "supercomputers" & see what the "best" compromise between wages, profits, & inflation
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257 is. They could at least get a reasonable guess. I'm SURE that the
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258 IRS & all the rest of the alphabet soup have more than enough info to make this a reasonably valid simultion!
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259 On the education bit: do any of you know where the "standard class size & classroom size came from? the answer may surprise
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260 you (I can't vouch for its authenticity, but it seems to be right).
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261 ________________________Leonard_________________________________
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262 HAVE A MINT CONDITION 1970 VW BUS FOR SALE. NEW CLUTCH AND PUT
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263 IN NEW ENGINE 6000 MILES AGO. ASKING 1450 ON THE ADVICE OF THE
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264 MECHANIC WHO HAS GIVEN IT TLC FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS. IF INTERESTED
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265 CALL 297-xxxx AND ASK FOR STEVE, IF I'M NOT IN LEAVE A MESSAGE.
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266
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267 EXIT
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268 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
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269 | I'm all for computer education, but I suspect that the schools should do |
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270 | more research than what they have been doing. |
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271 | |
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272 | Tron, I think that built-in software is a good idea. The Lisa was built for |
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273 | business, and as such, has the appropriate software built-in. If you don't |
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274 | like that software, you can always load in other programs from the disk. |
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275 | |
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276 | I don't have any comments about all those things such as taxes and other |
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277 | things except this: |
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278 | |
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279 | LEAVE ME OUT OF IT! ...........................................Pioneer |
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280 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
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281
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282 dear Pioneer and TRON...You are obviously a couple of complete techno-nerds!
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283 After I finished reading your messages, I could hardly stop laughing! Come-
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284 on...if you are going to leave messages on this system, please try to be
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285 literate and coherent. Your messages were pitifully inadequate! Let's improve
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286 shall we?
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287 Evan
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288
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289 *******************************
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290 ******************************
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291
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292 Evan, please behave child.
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293
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294 *************************who
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295 We outta have a rule that there will be only one PS per message,
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296 and that it be no more than 5 lines long.
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297 #$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$
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298 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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299 HI MIKEY!
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300
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301 P.S. ADAM TRENT HAS JUST POINTED OUT TO ME THAT YOU ARE THE SAME MIKE I
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302 MET AT THE KAYPRO U.G. MEETING SELLING THE COPYLINK PACKAGE. HE WANTS TO
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303 GET TOGETHER WITH ME AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF QUANTITY
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304 DISCOUNT. HE SWEARS BY HIS EARLIER VERSION AND WANTS AN UPGRADE. I MAY
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305 BE EDITING KUG NEWSLETTER AND WILL PUT NOTICE IN THAT ABOUT IT BUT ADAM
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306 NO LONGER HAS THE FIGURES (REMEMBER, I'M THE GUY WITH THE DOW JONES
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307 PROBLEM?). COULD YOU LEAVE NOTE HERE OR CALL ME AT NUMBER ON MY CARD PLEASE.
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308 CHUCK
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309 P.P.S. LUDDITE?!? MIKEY................MY FEELINGS
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310 P.P.P.S. I REMEMBER WHEN PROGRAMMERS WERE ALL UNEMPLOYED. THE LABOR DEPART-
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311 MENT IN 1969 HAD SPECIAL FUNDS SET ASIDE TO TRAIN PROGRAMMERS IN ANYTHING
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312 ELSE. I WAS RETRAINED AS A LAB CHEMIST AND GOT BACK INTO PROGRAMING AND
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313 CONSULTING LATER. MOST OF THE PROGRAMMERS IN THOSE DAYS GOT INTO SOMETHING
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314 ELSE, CONTRIBUTING TO THE LATER SHORTAGE. THE REASON - CHANGES IN GOVERNMENT
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315 AND TECHNOLOGY. IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN, TOO. BUT I'M MUCH SAFER NOW THAT I'M A
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316 SMALL BUSINESS INSTEAD OF AN EMPLOYEE OF A BIG ORGANIZATION. THIS IS ONE WAY
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317 THE BIG CHANGE CAN TAKE PLACE - ECONOMIC DECENTRALIZATION (BIG TO SMALL).
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318 I AGREE WITH YOU GUYS UP THERE ABOUT THE LEISURE AGE. MY FEELING IS THAT
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319 THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR AT LEAST 10,000 YEARS. OLD JOB DESCRIPTIONS
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320 DISSAPPEAR AND NEW JOBS BECOME ACCEPTABLE, CONVENTIONAL CATAGORIES
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321 OF 'WORK'. THAT IS, IF YOU THINK IT'S WORK, IT'S WORK. IF YOU POINTED
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322 OUT AN ENGINEER TO A CRO-MAGNON MAN AND ASKED HIM WHAT THE ENGINEER WAS
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323 DOING HE PROBABLY WOULD ONLY SEE HIM SITTING DOWN - NOTHING LIKE REAL
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324 'WORK' ANYWAY. PEOPLE THINK OF NEW THINGS TO DO TO FILL TIME WITH AND
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325 I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT THEY STILL WILL. WE CAN'T VISUALIZE EXACTLY WHAT
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326 THESE THINGS WILL BE BECAUSE WE ARE NOW, NOT LATER.
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327 THE TROUBLE IS TIMING. THE PROCESS OF ACCEPTING NEW CATAGORIES
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328 OF ACTIVITY AS VALID (AND WORTH TRADING FOR) TAKES TIME. WHEN NEW
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329 TECHNOLOGY OBSOLETES JOBS (CREATING ONLY A FEW IN PLACE OF THE ONES
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330 OBSOLETED) THE REST OF THE SLACK IS TAKEN UP BY THE INGENUITY OF PEOPLE
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331 AT THINKING UP NEW WAYS OF FILLING TIME. AFTER WOMEN WERE NO LONGER
|
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332 NEEDED IN THE FIELD TO DIG POTATOES WITH STICKS, THE GUYS TOOK UP
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333 THE NEW HIGH TECH JOBS IN HARVESTING AND WOMEN INVENTED THE NEW
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334 CATAGORY 'HOUSEWIFE' (MY WIFE JUST SAID THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE FACTS-
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335 BUT ANYWAY....). IN THE PAST THESE TRANSITIONS TOOK MORE TIME THOUGH.
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336 NOW THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. THE MIGRATION TO THE CITIES
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337 BECAUSE OF NEW TECHNOLOGY IN THE LATE 18TH AND EARLY 19TH CENTURIES
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338 WAS RELATIVE TO THE SCALE OF THE CHANGE QUITE ABRUPT AND ENDED UP KILLING
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339 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. BUT ON THE WHOLE THE CHANGES OF THE PAST HAVE BEEN
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340 QUITE SLOW COMPARED TO WHAT WE ARE NOW GOING THROUGH. IF WE ARE TO
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341 AVOID REDUCE THE CURRENT REAL UNEMPLOYMENT LEVEL OF 20% IN THIS COUNTRY,
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342 (AS MUCH AS 90% IN SOME COUNTRIES) WE MUST LEARN TO ACCELERATE THE
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343 PROCESS OF NEW-JOB-INVENTION TO THE SAME PACE AS JOBS ARE OBSOLETED AT.
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344 THE LONG RUN ISN'T MY CONCERN HERE AS MUCH AS THE PRESENT - THESE
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345 PEOPLE ARE UNEMPLOYED *NOW* AND JUST IGNORING THE PROBLEM HASN'T
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346 WORKED VERY WELL LATELY.
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347 A THOUSAND FLOWERS MUST BLOOM HERE, AND SOMEONE HAS TO SOW THE FIELD.
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348 PPPPPPPPPS.
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349 FIRST PEOPLE UNDER 18 BECAME UNEMPLOYED. THEY SOLVED THAT BY PUTTING
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350 THEM IN SCHOOL. THEN WOMEN BECAME UNEMPLOYED. THEN MINORITIES. THEN
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351 THE HANDICAPPED. THEN BUSINESS MAJORS. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF THESE
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352 PEOPLE WAS LABOR SAVING TECHNOLOGY. THE CHILDREN ARE BETTER OFF THIS WAY
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353 PERHAPS, BUT I WOULD ARGUE ABOUT THE OTHERS. THESE PEOPLE WERE
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354 EMPLOYED UNTILL THE INVENTION OF LABOR SAVING EQUIPMENT THAT PUT THEM
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355 OUT OF WORK. NEW JOBS WERE NOT INVENTED FOR THEM BY ENGINEERS OR
|
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356 MANAGERS. THEIR UNEMPLOYED STATUS WAS JUST REDEFINED. THE
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357 WOMENS MOVEMENT AND MINORITY MOVEMENTS OF TODAY ARE STILL TRYING TO
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358 PUT THIS BACK TOGETHER. THE PER CAPITA PERCENTAGE OF "EMPLOYED
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359 PEOPLE" HAS DEFINITELY GONE DOWN BECAUSE OF NEW TECHNOLOGY!
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360 AND IT WILL HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH CONCIOUSLY AND IN AN ORGANZED
|
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361 FASHION NOW. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH SOONER, I THINK, HAD NOT MOST OF
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362 THE VICTIMS BEEN NOT-WHITE, NOT-MALE, OR NOT-21. (OR OVER MANDATORY
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363 RETIREMENT AGE).(OR MEMBERS OF THE THIRD WORLD)
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364 WE ARE BENEFICIARIES OF THE SYSTEM AS IT EXISTS TODAY (AMONG THE
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365 FEW) AND SHOULD BE EXTREMELY SENSITIVE TO THE DAMAGE THAT WE CAN
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366 STILL CAUSE, EVEN (ESPECIALLY?) TO OURSELVES. (WHO KNOWS WHO'S NEXT).
|
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367 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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368 EVAN, DONT BE SO RUDE!!!!!!!!
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369 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 22 Aug 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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370 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19:50 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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371 Can a whisper be heard amidst a merrily rowdy crowd? Will a tenative
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372 smile be seen, though the Inn hums and bustles with enthusiastic conversing?
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373 Such thoughts linger on the edge of her mind as she approaches the Inn...
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374 Hesitation seizes her at the threshold, even as it always has, and she
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375 pauses to observe what sort of people might be enjoying the Innkeeper's
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376 hospitality. Safe in the shadow of the towering oaken door, she probes
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377 their eyes and listens to their voices, collectively booming out into the
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378 dusk...gradually, unconsciously, she steps closer; a smile begins curling,
|
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379 unnoticed by the debaters...the rich variety of thoughts being thrown about
|
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380 begins drawing her even closer, just as the meaty aroma of a stew, combined
|
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381 with the sight of butter melting on freshly-baked biscuits entices those
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382 weary, hungry travelers that find refreshment in this ancient Inn.
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383 O Adventurer, your weariness causes a mirage to waver before your
|
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384 eyes--be not despondant! You have indeed found the true Backwater Inn;
|
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385 only the conversations have changed. Look there, it is Grey who quietly
|
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386 sips his sherris; listen, did you not hear the somber voice of Dave, also
|
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387 known as Humbug; and never underestimate our gracious host, the Innkeeper.
|
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388 Many others mingle in silence, but I can still sense their presence...
|
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389 Tell me your name, for I have interest in tales of your wanderings--!
|
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390 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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391 CHUCK: Call you a Luddite?! Heavens no! (A little judicial poking here
|
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392 and there maybe.) I'm glad to see that you have continued your direction
|
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393 of your debate though. (I am not impressed with someone who will shift
|
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394 his speech to match whatever he thinks the person or group he is talking
|
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395 to wants to hear. (Does that mean I am not impressed with polititions?,
|
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396 YES)) As per COPYLINK, I would be happy to sell you a package! The list
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397 price is $99.95, and the group discount is $59.97 (quantity 5) The next
|
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398 discount level is at qty 10 and is $54.97.
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399 ********* CISTOP MIKEY ****** 22 AUG 83 *************************************:
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400 P.P.S. I would agree with you that the job market is shifting, and rapidly
|
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401 (in comparision to the past), but I wonder if things are not starting to
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402 take care of themselves (at least partially) the number of women in the
|
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403 'job' market is at an all time high (for this particular 'job' market). This
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404 of course would have some effect on male workers (NO NO not that kind of
|
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405 an effect!) as the jobs were potentially alvailable for them ... or were they..
|
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406 of course as you pointed out, these women in the job market are coming from
|
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407 another 'job' market that was not accounted for in job figures. So how do
|
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408 we handle those figures in reality? The information as to the number of
|
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409 housewives could be obtained, but that is not what we need to know, we need
|
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410 to know the effect all this will have on future job availability.
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411 As for the coming age of leizure, I doubt that it will come to pass,
|
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412 I don't think anybody could stand not being a productive part of society
|
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413 (apart from the usual minority that you will always have.) Something
|
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414 will be brought into being that can provide for this need. I don't think
|
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415 we will see a return to the ditch digger, but I would not be surprised
|
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416 to see the return of specific labour skills such as were found in those
|
|
417 building structures many years ago. since more tools and will be available,
|
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418 and the material will be less of a concern in the cost. It would seem that
|
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419 the increase in skilled labour in producing something will become important.
|
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420 One thing I have found is that there are levels at which people will purchase
|
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421 things, it has nothing to do with any special thing about a product, they
|
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422 will simply look for the best item that will suit their needs within a
|
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423 specific price range. Never mind if something much cheaper can serve as well,
|
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424 they are bound and determined to buy at the level they want because of
|
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425 preceived value. Therefore if the cost of producing an item goes down because
|
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426 the labour involved in producing it is drasticly cut, then is it not
|
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427 feasible that someone will figure out a way to put that labour back in
|
|
428 so as to maintain the desired price range of the product?
|
|
429 **.***** CISTOP MIKEY (AM I STILL NOT DEBATING?) ***********************
|
|
430 Ahhh a fresh breeze wafts thru the Inn carrying with it a fragrence
|
|
431 of green. A presence is felt then a peel of laughter echos thru the
|
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432 Inn, and all turn with similes aglow to see the wanderer returned.
|
|
433 Welcome to this most humble of Inns O gracious Lady of the dragons.
|
|
434 ************ CISTOP MIKEY YET STILL ****** 22 AUG 83 *****************
|
|
435 What is putting people out of work isn't just new machines replacing them, but
|
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436 rather their inablity to move into the jobs created by the machines. In other
|
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437 words, mostly lack of education. For example, a filing clerk is replaced by a
|
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438 computer, even if the computer must be programmed, she is out of a job because
|
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439 she can't program. The same thing is killing the US steel industry: the
|
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440 business has changed, and they haven't kept up. Production jobs are dying out,
|
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441 replaced with machines; "service" jobs are beocoming much more common. There
|
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442 may always be a janitor pushing a broom, likewise barber, gardner, artist, etc.
|
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443 The new technology creates many new jobs: hifi salesman, programmer,
|
|
444 TV cameraman,computer repairman, hazardous waste chemists, astronauts. But these
|
|
445 jobs are not for just anyone; they require special training. The trend seems
|
|
446 to be toward 2 classes: high tech workers & managers, and laborers who merely
|
|
447 run the machines. We need more computer education because everything will be
|
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448 computerized in the future, the jobs that don't use them will be things like
|
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449 garbage collector, but I suspect what we know as programmer will be obsolete
|
|
450 soon, too.
|
|
451 ////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\
|
|
452 Yes, yes, I know. But hasn't anyone on this sytem learned the value of
|
|
453 concise, to-the-point messages? More than one person above has taken a 20-line
|
|
454 thought and turned it into a 60-line message. Sure it's yours to do with what
|
|
455 you wish, but can't you concentrate your ideas just a bit?
|
|
456 =========================================================================
|
|
457 ********************************************************************************
|
|
458 THE PRINCE IS ROUSED FROM HIS ENNUI BY A FAMILIAR VOICE IN THE INN
|
|
459 THE BACKWATER DEBATING SOCIETY CAN HOLD ONE'S INTEREST ONLY SO LONG...
|
|
460 HE WELCOMES THE FAIR LADY'S RETURN FOR SHE HAS BEEN SORELY MISSED,
|
|
461 NOW MAYBE WE CAN RETURN TO SOME NONSENSICAL BUT ENJOYABLE FANTASY
|
|
462 DP
|
|
463 ********************************************************************************
|
|
464
|
|
465 A small figure sits in a corner listening to the debaters. Occasionally, a comment
|
|
466 brings a smile to his lips, but it fades quickly.
|
|
467 Suddenly there is a change... he seems to be trying NOT too look towards the
|
|
468 door. Can it be? He fears disapointment, but gathering his courage he risks a
|
|
469 glance. The shadows make it diffucult to be certain but.... yes! It is she! She
|
|
470 has returned! Now his face is filled with joy as he drinks a silent toast
|
|
471 in anticipation of the tales to come.
|
|
472 Welcome, Oh Ladye of Dragons.
|
|
473 .....................the apprentice..........................
|
|
474 OH NO ..... NOT AGAIN !
|
|
475 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
|
|
476
|
|
477
|
|
478
|
|
479 a new day dawns on the backwater...........
|
|
480
|
|
481 a hullo to dp and dl,
|
|
482
|
|
483 Aaron of days past
|
|
484
|
|
485 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
|
|
486 Evan,
|
|
487 Your comments are utterly rude and disgusting. You'Ve been
|
|
488 told this same thing by others, so if you don't have something
|
|
489 nice to say, don't say it!
|
|
490
|
|
491 Pioneer,
|
|
492 I understand that, I think that the Apple computer corp.
|
|
493 vastly overcharge their computers. 1200 dollars for a 32k
|
|
494 apple without a d drive?!? They added that software just so
|
|
495 they could throw in an extra 2000 bucks in price. I wish they'D
|
|
496 get off this 6809 stuff, it's getting boring. Why not get a
|
|
497 higher vaule microprocessor like the Z80a or Z80b? I understand
|
|
498 that the Lisa has a M68000. A TRS-80 Model 16 can do 3 users at
|
|
499 once without modification. The Lisa can't. It should do as much
|
|
500 as the 16 for it's price! So, until then, GET WITH IT APPLE!
|
|
501
|
|
502 TRON
|
|
503 I AGREE WITH YOU TRON
|
|
504
|
|
505 ...........................................
|
|
506 To: Sysop Mikey
|
|
507 Fm: Stan the Man
|
|
508 Sj: Cleveland, OH
|
|
509
|
|
510 Might come and see you guys sometime Thursday P.M....
|
|
511
|
|
512 I understand Cleveland want to see me today...was unable to
|
|
513 make it as there were many chores to be done.....
|
|
514
|
|
515 Later on...in 4 space,
|
|
516 Stan the Man
|
|
517
|
|
518 **************
|
|
519 I FIND MYSELF A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS. HOW MANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE TWO PSEUDONYMS.
|
|
520 I CAN'T BELIEVE ALL THESE MOON GAZERS JUST HOPPED OUT OF NOWHERE TODAY.
|
|
521 SOME OF YOU MUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT WERE DOING THE SCHOOL DEBATE IS MY
|
|
522 CONCLUSION. SO ZAT'S HOKAY BUT YOU YUST VATCH OUT FOR DU TRANCENDANTLY
|
|
523 EVIL PROSE OF...................
|
|
524 BATPOOP THE MAGNIFICENT
|
|
525 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*****************((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()
|
|
526 BAD I WONDER WHY MOST OF THE JOBS YOU MENTIONED REQUIRE I.Q.s IN THE TOP
|
|
527 20 PERCENT. MOST PEOPLE AIN'T GONNA BE RETRAINED FOR THIS TYPE OF STUFF.
|
|
528 SPECIALLY THEM OF US WHAT SAYS AIN'T A LOT.
|
|
529
|
|
530 DEAR ========================,
|
|
531 10-4
|
|
532
|
|
533 DEAR MIKEY, PRICE SOUNDS GOOD WILL CONTACT YOU HOPEFULLY AFTER NEXT KUG
|
|
534 MEETING.
|
|
535 CHUCK
|
|
536 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
|
|
537 Hey you guys. As I said before, I'm me. I've always been me. And I will
|
|
538 probably always be me. And I'm not anyone else 'neither. No pseudonyms.
|
|
539 Sure I'm me. Who else would I be, anyway? I'm very satisfied being myself.
|
|
540 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Me<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
|
541 If you are ME, then who am I????
|
|
542
|
|
543
|
|
544 ################################
|
|
545 I know who I am, and I know who You are. How do I know? When I close my
|
|
546 eyes, You all go away. (it's so simple when you think it out)
|
|
547 the Phantom Glitch
|
|
548 H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-H=H-
|
|
549
|
|
550
|
|
551 HI THERE GLENN HOW'S IT GOING.
|
|
552 WE GOT A NEW TI-99/4A MINUS A MONITOR TH
|
|
553
|
|
554 ERIC SWENSON
|
|
555 E
|
|
556 X
|
|
557 ABORT
|
|
558
|
|
559
|
|
560 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
|
561 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
|
562 *********************** ALTERED STATES *******************************
|
|
563 How can we look backwards into ourselves to understand what the true nature
|
|
564 of our being is. What is the basis of the universe what is the true nature
|
|
565 of reality. Keep looking inward inward inward inward inward inward.
|
|
566 Do we find the answer no one knows
|
|
567 How deep with in is the answer.
|
|
568 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ d: Me, somber? Hmmm... *twinkle twinkle* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
|
569
|
|
570
|
|
571 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
572 Yes, but don't look too far inward, or for too long. You might get lost
|
|
573 in your own ego, and find that you have lost the ability to perceive the
|
|
574 universe as anything other than an extension of yourself. I know that
|
|
575 it can't be proven that the universe isn't just an extension of you, but
|
|
576 that thought pattern still interferes with the ability to communicate.
|
|
577
|
|
578 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM[][][][]
|
|
579 HELLO
|
|
580
|
|
581 JUST THOUGHT THAT i7d saI'd say Hi. . . . . .
|
|
582
|
|
583 you guys are all wet (gals also).
|
|
584
|
|
585 A wise man once told me.......search for, hunt for,
|
|
586 quest for, hunger for ........the meaning of life.
|
|
587
|
|
588 The truth of it is hard to realiize. The hope for it
|
|
589 is real.....can it be far off?
|
|
590
|
|
591 #-+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
592 THE ABOVE WAS PAID FOR BY THE 42 COMMITTEE. X*14 CALLING
|
|
593 #-+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
594 I think I know why Mike changed the disk . . . .
|
|
595 *********************************************************
|
|
596 To PAM:
|
|
597 I noticed that I have neglected to say hello and
|
|
598 welcome to you. Let me hereby rectify that. "Hello!" and
|
|
599 "Welcome!" I am sorry to have not said so earlier, but my
|
|
600 time here is short and must be grasped at odd moments, and
|
|
601 I am afraid that I have not given the attention that is
|
|
602 properly due to the customers of my most humble Inn.
|
|
603 In you comment from a previous disk - I thank you greatly
|
|
604 for such kind and gracious words. May your stay here be
|
|
605 pleasent and merry. (And for the sake of my customers and
|
|
606 myself, may your vists here be frequent!)
|
|
607 ******* CISTOP MIKEY ***** 10:59PM ****** 24 AUG 83 ******
|
|
608 P.S. Would too much contemplation of your navel cause you
|
|
609 to turn into an orange?
|
|
610 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
611 THANKS MIKEY!!! AND, WHILE YOU MIGHT NOT TURN INTO AN
|
|
612 ORANGE, YOU MIGHT BE ACCUSED OF BEING A FRUIT!!!!!!!!
|
|
613
|
|
614 [][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM[][][][][]
|
|
615
|
|
616 P.S. ORANGE YOU GLAD I SAID THAT?
|
|
617
|
|
618 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
619 GROAN...... Say, if you were accused of being a fruit, and you were
|
|
620 a pilot, would that make you a ... fruit fly.....?
|
|
621 ****** CISTOP MIKEY? ****** 26 AUG 83 ***** 8:50AM *************
|
|
622 << chOKE COugh hACk >> THat one was too bad for a groan...Good thing its hidden away on disk B, 'cos otherwise the patrons
|
|
623 would be pelting you with rotten--oh, no...
|
|
624 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|
|
625 Anyone know how to clean rotten tomatos off a disk?..
|
|
626 *********** CISTOP MIKEY ******** 26 AUG 83 **************************
|
|
627 HAVE WE COME TO THE THREE STAGES OF THE "BRAVE NEW WORLD" WERE EVERYONE
|
|
628 HAS THERE PLACE IN THE WORLD AND A CERTAIN PURPOSE-WILL -YOU WILL BE
|
|
629 A WAFFER POLISHER AND YOU WILL DO YOUR JOB RIGHT-ALL THIS TALK ABOUT-NEW
|
|
|