475 lines
25 KiB
Plaintext
475 lines
25 KiB
Plaintext
TEXT FILE VERSION OF
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T E L E C O M P U T I S T
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~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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Newsletter
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PART II OF II
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Typed in September 1, 1986
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:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:
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NEWS
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AT&T has plans to market a high-contrast, distortion-free-plasma display.
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Prototype plasma displays are now in production at AT&T Technology Systems'
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manufacturing located in Reading, PA. The displays will be available in mid-
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1986.
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Steve Wozniak has bought about five million dollars worth of Apple Com-
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puter stock. He is thinking about buying up fifteen milion dollars more of
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Apple Computer stock. Wozniak commented that Apple Computer was heading in the
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right direction.
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The US Army has given a contract of $2.4 million for the production of 400
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Grid portable computers plus software and hardware products. These portable
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computers will be integrated with a tactical telephone switchboard developed by
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GTE Government Systems. These computer systems will provide automated commun-
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ications control facilities and will be the standard for use in the field.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From Pirate-80 Systems - 304/744-2253
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TRANSCRIPT: PHIL DONAHUE SHOW
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Aired March 15, 1985
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EDITOR'S NOTES: This is an annotated transcript of the highlights of "The
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Phil Donahue Show," which dealt with computer communications and its ramifica-
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tions. The New York-based syndicated television show aired this morning in
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many parts of the country.
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Donahue's guests for the discussion were Richard Louv, author of the book
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called "America II: The Book that Captures Americans in the Act of Creating the
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Future" and Newsweek journalist Richard Sandza, who has reported on the
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exploits of computer "crackers."
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Also on the show were demonstrations of the CompuServe and The Source net-
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works and regulars of the networking community, including Chris and Pam Dunn of
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the CB forum and subscriber Bill Steinberg.
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This file is quite long -- about 20K. For best results, we'd suggest that
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you "scroll" it by entering S at the next prompt. CTRL-S will freeze the dis-
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play; CTRL-Q will resume it.)
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Now, the show begins. The transcript...
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PHIL DONAHUE (to the audience): Do you know who can access a computer to find
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out how much is in your checking account? How many times you've been
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divorced? Whether or not you watch dirty movies? I'm telling you.
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UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Not true. Not true.
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DONAHUE: Whether your're bankrupt?
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THE WOMAN: Yes...
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DONAHUE: I don't know if it matters about being careful... (turns to the stage
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to introduce guests)
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DONAHUE: This is Richard Louv. He's written a book entitled "America II"...
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This whole Orwellean thing is not funny. You know that people are falling in
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love with computers. I mean, with each other. There's X-rated computers.
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(Laughter) I'm telling you and you're laughing.
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LOUV: (When) I got interested in this whole thing, I (visited some bulletin
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boards and)...it's a good thing my computer has a fan on it. I was up late
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one night and all this X-rated stuff started coming up on my screen, I mean
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really hardcore.
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DONAHUE: You're talking about dirty language. Not pictures?
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LOUV: No, but it's a form of mating. (Laughter) There's a lot of computer sex
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out there.
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DONAHUE (to the audience): You know what they do? They have hot tub parties...
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Everybody's got a nickname and then if you connect with somebody during this
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party, you and that other person can go off by yourself onto this private
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channel, have a little more X-rated conversation, and then if you want, go
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back to the hot-tub party. (Laughter) I'm telling you.
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LOUV: And there are hundreds of these computer bulletin boards that are
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sexually oriented...
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DONAHUE: The problem is: 14-year-olds are doing it....
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DONAHUE (introducing second guest): Let me tell you what happened to a Newsweek
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reporter. This is a real live computer victim here. Richard Sandza was doing
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a piece for the magazine...
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SANDZA: I did a piece talking about these bulletin boards... (to say) "Here's
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what's going on. There are these bulletin boards and kids are using them to
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exchange illegal information (such as) how to get your credit card."...And
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they came after me because they felt I had broken some sort of pledge and told
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too much about their underground.
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DONAHUE: And you had a "teletrial," didn't you?
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SANDZA: I was put on teletrial, which is somewhat like the hot tub parties,
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only I think I was going to be boiled in oil in this one.
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DONAHUE: A jury and testimony and everything?
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SANDZA: Yes, they set up a bulletin board and people would call in and place
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charges against me and say why I should be punished. I was allowed to defend
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myself.
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DONAHUE: You were also getting hostile phone calls at home? They got your
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phone number?
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SANDZA: They got my telephone number and began calling me at home at all hours
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of the day and night. The worst thing they did was they dialed into (a credit
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card company) and got the whole list of my credit card accounts. They passed
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the credit card numbers around the country and then they started using the
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credit cards.
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DONAHUE: Your wife... you both must have been very, very frightened by all of
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this.
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SANDZA: Well, this started on the day my wife went into labor with our first
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child and I called the phone company from the maturity ward to make sure my
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telephone wouldn't be disconnected, as they had been threatened. They threat-
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ened to blow up my house. I didn't know whether to take this seriously, but I
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had seen messages (on bulletin boards) on how to make letter bombs, nitro-
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glycerin, pick locks, all these other things, all the things necessary to blow
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up my house in San Francisco.
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DONAHUE: Neo-Nazis have computers.
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SANDZA: They keep track of their hit lists and pass around information so they
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can keep track of their enemies.
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LOUV: Yes, that's a national network. Any one of you can call into the Neo-
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Nazi's bulletin board, if you have a computer.
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SANDZA: Yes, if you want some hate mail, just dial in.
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DONAHUE: The KKK is talking to each other on bulletin boards. A 14-year-old...
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was apparently able to transmit how to make nitroglycerin.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPECTATOR: How do you protect yourself from this?
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SANDZA: I'm not sure you can protect yourself from this. Credit bureau com-
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puters are kept so all of us can have credit cards and they have information
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on just about...every adult in the United States. The security's not even
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(good) enough to keep these kids out.
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LOUV: I talked to one guy who gets into these (systems) and he says that the
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TRW computer system is incredibly user-friendly.... I asked TRW about this,
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"How do you get these numbers?" TRW has 30,000 customers -- banks, savings and
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loans -- who call in every day to ask for a credit... They print these numbers
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out. That's 30,000 leak points for your number.
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SANDZA: The kid who got my number, they found... the password and the number
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(in a) garbage can behind a bank in Massachusetts.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPECTATOR: I think what you have to consider is, we're blaming the
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computer in this. It's not the computer. It's the people using it.
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(Applause.)
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SANDZA: You're absolutely right. ...(Donahue introduces Bill Steinberg at a
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computer terminal. There's a demonstration of The Source's electronic confer-
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encing system, PARTICIPATION. The messages shown on the screen from an on-
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line conferences about "sexual gadgets" and devices.)
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DONAHUE (to the audience): ... While we're watching this, let's consider some
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of the legal questions. Can I insult your mother on this thing? And if I do,
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can you sue me? How do you find me? And who's responsible for that libel?
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Is it the computer agency? The bulletin board itself? And who's responsible
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... does thje law oblige the person running the bulletin board to be respon-
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sible? ... You cannot send neo-Nazi mail, hate mail, to Canada, for instance.
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It's illegal...but you can transmit...
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SANDZA: Well, that's why they set up the bulletin board. One of them is in
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Northern Idaho... so that their followers in Canada could dial in and get this
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information. It's very effective, as I understand.
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DONAHUE: (Looking back at the computer screen. To Steinberg:) What have you got
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there? Oh, it's another sex thing. We'd better get off this thing...
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LOUV: This may be the only safe form of sex left. (Laughter)
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DONAHUE: That's right. No diseases.
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(Steinberg then logs on to CompuServe Service's CB)
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DONAHUE: You know what would be fun? Let's get the checking account of some-
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body in the aduience... I bet you we could.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPECTATOR: Use yours... (Laughter)
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(Donahue looks at the computer screen again, and notes that one of the CB'ers
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said he was logged on from Montreal)
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DONAHUE: So we have an international communications. Now, one of the things
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that obviously should concern us is that this appears to get around laws that
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government international (communications). That could include information
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that might hurt somebody. Racist information that might place somebody at
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risk. Remember the CB craze. Wherever there are people communicating, there
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is going to be conflict. It's another flag.
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LOUV: But it's also another opportunity for social activism. Greenpeace now
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has it's own computer bulletin board network. So does the anti-nuclear move-
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ment and I think we're entering a period... of strange forms of social acti-
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vism, and this is going to be one of those forms.
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SANDZA: It replaces the telephone in alot of cases... The difference here is
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that you're completely anonymous and you don't need somebody's telephone num-
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ber... Maybe there shouldn't be any laws that govern what you say back and
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forth. There certainly aren't on the telephone. The difference here is that
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you could keep an actual record (of what was said) on paper and then you could
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rebroadcast that somewhere else.
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LOUV: In a sense, this is a return to Tom Paine who printed off cheap pamphlets
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and handed them out in Boston. These political groups have instant access to
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information. for instance, how to set up a protest against (a nuclear plant.)
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They can find out in San Francisco immediately how it was done on the East
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Coast...That has enormous power for the future and I'm not sure many of us
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have fully realized that.
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(Donahue introduces Chris and Pamela Dunn in the audience)
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DONAHUE: They look happy, don't they? Well, they are. Very happy. (To the
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Dunns) You're married, aren't you? They met via computer terminals. How did
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this happen, and were you alone, or at work, or...?
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PAM DUNN: I was alone at home and I was using a terminal to access CompuServe,
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utilizing the CB network. That was a few years ago now, when it was young and
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there weren't that many people around. Chris and I started talking to each
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other. At first, I didn't even know he was male, because we were both using
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handles to have that anonymity.
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DONAHUE: What were your handles?
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PAM DUNN: Zeroa3.
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CHRIS DUNN: ChrisDos, which is a computer term.
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PAM DUNN: We got to talk to each other quite frequently and we started having
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parties. That was the thing to do in CB was to have actual parties so people
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could meet each other. And I came from Chicago to New York and met and
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(laughs) made history.
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..
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CHRIS DUNN: (The parties became national parties eventually). I flew to San
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Francisco to meet some people, just to have a nice time. They didn't have
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anything to do with sex or any of this other stuff. We were just enjoying
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each other's company and talking to each other. The thing about computers is
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they're just a tool. People are doing the same thing with them that they've
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done for ages...It's not the computer; it's the people running them.
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DONAHUE: Pamela, you're a shy person. You're not the kind to be found in a
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singles bar.
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PAM DUNN: Absolutely not, and I've found this is an incredible way to meet, not
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just a potential spouse, but friends, people you have things in common with,
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people that you don't have things in common with but ways to broaden your
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horizons by encountering them.
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CHIS DUNN: And you don't have to be a technie type. She's a zoo keeper...
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DONAHUE: And I assume you can tell a jerk on the screen maybe even easier than
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you can...
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PAM DUNN: It takes practice. You get suckered in a few times...(Laughter)
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DONAHUE: Well, there's no guarantees when you meet them.
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DONAHUE: (Addressing a portion of the audience) Now am I to understand that all
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you people refer to yourselves as 'users'? You know, 'user' has become a bad
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word in our culture, but we won't (laughs) suggest that you're doing anything
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wrong...
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(While walking through the audience, Donahue talks with a woman who says she
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used to call a number of bulletin boards, but after receiving big phone bills,
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restricted her BBS-hopping to local New York boards.)
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DONAHUE: But there are people who can use this equipment without paying the
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phone company?
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SANDZA: Sure. That's one of the things they exchange on these illegal bulletin
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boards. Most of these people (in the audience) probably haven't been on ill-
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egal bulletin boards and aren't interested in being on them. But (the bull-
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etin board will) spread information on ... how to beat the phone company... so
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you don't have to worry about those big phone bills...
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(Donahue returns to the CompuServe CB demonstration. He notes that many users
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of CB and other "real-time" conferences send messages such as "<waving>" and
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"<hugs!>," noting this is "really a warm medium.")
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LOUV: You know what? One thing they've found about this, though, is that you'd
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think that you'd be kind of cold and technical using this, with the language?
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The opposite is true. There's a term, "flaming" (for) when people use elec-
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tronic mail (and) exaggerate everything. You see exclamation points across
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the screens. Everything's exaggerated. People lose their tempers. Execu-
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tives will swear on these things, when you'd never see them swear in the board
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room... So everything is hot on this medium. It's not a cold medium.
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DONAHUE: (looking at the CB demonstration.) Can you see this? We've already
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got a wise guy. "Hi Phil. I always like Marlo Thomas better." (from a CB'er
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with the handle of "MOM") (Laughter and applause)...
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LOUV: You need to put this into the context, or culture we're in. I've
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described it as "America II." It's a culture in which many of us are drawn
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into condos with high-security systems. More and more things are done in the
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home. We're more and more isolated. But just when you think that (we've)
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created an America II where everybody stays inside and (doesn't) touch or any-
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thing, this kind of communication comes along. That hot medium that I find
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very fascinating. We're finding new ways to communicate...
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SANDZA: The flip-side of this is the misuse of these bulletin boards that pass
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out information about how to break the law, how to invade your privacy, how to
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make bombs...These boards are completely anonymous. I can say anything I want
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about you. You can say anything you want about me. This information moves
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around at the speed of light and if you wanted to spread my credit card around
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the country, you could do it in a flash...
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LOUV: This lady back here who said it's not the computer, it's how we use it is
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exactly right. It's part of the new American culture and we can't get around
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it...
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<COMMERCIAL BREAK>
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(A woman in the audience comments to Donahue that the computer's seem like
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"adult's toys" to her.)
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LOUV: Phil, there's something very ominous that doesn't really have to do with
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the privacy issue and that's the split between America I and America II. The
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America of poor blacks and chicanos and people who have no access to this
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stuff. This stuff is rich kids' toys for the most part....
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(Another woman says her child saved up to buy his own computer.)
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LOUV: Increasingly, it's available to those people...but even when it's avail-
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able, studies have shown, often times they haven't been prepared by their edu-
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cation to use it...They use it by rote memory. They don't use it in the
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intuitive kinds of ways that middle class are using them.
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DONAHUE: It's another vehicle to widen what we have already been told by a
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national commission is a gap between the two Americas.
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LOUV: There's a study in Silicon Valley ... of kid who use computers. The kids
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of the engineers and computer designers....40 percent of (them) had computers.
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Ten miles away, the kids of the parents who... put those computers together, 1
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percent of those kids have computers...
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(A woman comments she feels "shut out" by not knowing about computers.)
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LOUV: These are the people of America I -- not shut out of the world so much as
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left before... The people of America II are going to be talking internation-
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ally... There's a computer bulletin board in Japan (with which) you can make a
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local call and talk to anyone in the world. What about the people of America
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I who are being left behind?
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(A woman spectator asks: are these people spending too much time with comp-
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uters?)
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DONAHUE: Good question.
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SANDZA: Perhaps they are. But we ask ourselves what's going to heppen in the
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'80s, as we move from an industrial society to a service society when compu-
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ters will do the high tech jobs of the future. These kids...are the ones who
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are going to be ready for those jobs.
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<COMMERCIAL BREAK>
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(Donahue talks with a man in the audience who says he operates a local computer
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bulletin board and is proud of the fact that it's a "clear board." The man
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notes that his board deals primarily with sharing computer information.)
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DONAHUE (to the audience): You know you can get electronic graffiti. It's
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another opportunity to display your idiocy, so how are you going to police
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that? Who's going to take it off? And if somebody's libeled...
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(Woman asks if it should be illegal to have x-rated bulletin boards.)
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SANDZA: How are you going to enforce that law? The only way you can enforce
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that law is to have the people who are the guardians of these young people...
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(interrupted)
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(Woman says there's room for both America I and America II, that she hopes some
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people are still "writing poetry and kids going out sailing.")
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LOUV: One of the things I discuss in the book is that....America II doesn't
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have to end up where it looks like it's heading. Look -- how many of your
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communities have spent money on parks lately?...This (computing) is the new
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recreation, the new outdoors and we've got to start looking at these things if
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...we really want to balance society...
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UNIDENTIFIED SPECTATOR: Are we saying that even though there are a lot of
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people doing things that are illegal, there's no way to police it so it's all
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right?
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SANDZA: It's virtually impossible to police it...the law's beginning to emerge.
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The federal government passed a law last year making it illegal to trespass in
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a computer, but it applies only to government computers. The section (dealing
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with) private computers was deleted as it went through congress.
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DONAHUE: It's a nightmare when you think about it. Can they access an (avia-
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tion computer)? Can they send your plane to the wrong city? Can they send
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your plane to the wrong runaway?
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(Sandza notes that crackers were "into the computer" that kept time on the
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Olympic races.)
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<COMMERCIAL BREAK>
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(Donahue looks at the computer screen again. It's now displaying The Source's
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PARTICIPATE this time with an electronic conference on "Single Parenting.")
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LOUV: The point isn't the law...the law has to be changed, ovbiously. But that
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isn't the point. The point is what kind of alternatives do we provide for
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kids? This is not a negative technology. It's neutral. Kids have to have an
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alternative. We have to start looking at our cities and countryside and our
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small towns and figure out how to make them more humane for children.
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(Man in the audience said he'd like to hear more about Chris and Pam Dunn.)
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DONAHUE: I would too...And they're still married even though the show's almost
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over. (Laughter) How long did you communicate through the computers before
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you actually met?
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PAM DUNN: About six months before we actually met.
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CHRIS DUNN: We got together a few times back and forth. She was throwing a
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party and I went to it. The rest was just plain old love. It happened that
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way.
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DONAHUE: Where was the first time you met?
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PAM: Chicago.
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DONAHUE: He came to see you.
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PAM: Yes, still old-fashioned...
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DONAHUE: Did you take him to see the Cubs of the Sox?
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PAM: I took him to see the zoo. (Applause and laughter.)
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(Woman says whe wants to have nothing to do with computers asks if she'll have
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no choice in 20 years.)
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SANDZA: The technology is heading toward making it much easier for people who
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know nothing about computers to use them.
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(Woman asks Sandza what about what the punishment was in his "teletrial" --
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"did they flip the switch or what?")
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SANDZA: No. I made a deal with a friend who's a hacker who crashed the system
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... he essentially blew up the courthouse. (Laughter.)
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<COMMERICAL BREAK>
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(Man in the audience says that something to consider is that "if information is
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currency, then who's minding the bank?")
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DONAHUE: And what are the censorship rules? Who decides?
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(following the usual format for the Donahue Show, the camera fades out with
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people in the audience still asking questions. As the show ends, one man is
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asking if the computer cracker ever break into computers in the Soviet Union.
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No answer is recorded.)
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-End of transcript-
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Newsletter Staff:
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Data Line
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Forest Ranger
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Rev Enge
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Taran King
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Knight Lightning
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Cheap Shades
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Ax Murderer
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Chris Jones
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SUBSCRIPTIONS
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Rates- Please send to-
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$12 - 1 Year Individual TeleComputist
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$20 - 1 Year Corporate P.O. Box 2003
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$.50- Back Issues Florissant, MO 63032
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STAFF COMMENT:
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We have tried to accomplish the formation of the old Tap. We mean you
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will find no glossy paper, color photographs, 40 page issues, advertisement
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kits, with professional type-setting and etc. We believe in content not char-
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acter in a newsletter and I would like to stress the word "newsletter". We
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have set this newsletter up to provide the subscriber with new information. We
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We have our own writers but wish for you to contribute information that you
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feel is detrimental to others. We have a set number of pages for each issue
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which will be four and will only exceed this quota on special occasions. Also,
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please send letters so we can print your comments regarding information in our
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newsletter.
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-Staff
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****NOTICE****
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Before sending subscription fee, PLEASE contact TELECOMPUTIST via the following
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Telex Address:
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Telex 650-240-6356
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Answerback 650-240-6356
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If you have no Telex access (MCI, CSI, etc.) leave a note to TECHNICIAN on the
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Delphi system - Thanks for your cooperation.
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- The Editor
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=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
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Typists Note: These files were typed straight from TeleComputist's sample
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issue which can be obtained by sending a self-addressed-stamped-envelope with
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39 cents of postage on it to the address stated above for subscriptions. This
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file was typed as in the issue except for several minor changes. The only
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major difference between the sample issue and this text file version is that
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the issue contained a Bloom County comic strip featuring a hacker.
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A bored hacker is a frightening thing.
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:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:
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(>
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==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==
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_ _
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\ (_><_) And if you enjoyed this Text-file, Call:
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\_______[]_____ The Works "914's Text-file BBS" at (914)/238-8195
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_\ 300/1200 N,8,1 1200 baud only from 6:00pm to 12:00mid
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___________ \>\ 10 Megabytes on-line Anti-RBBS and Networks
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/ > \ SysOps: Jason Scott & Terror Ferret
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/ ======= (900) Text-files on-line!
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The following names compose a monument to last forever in the electronic
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highway: Patrizia Bravi Alessandra Bravi Glenda Frank Marcelle Dumont
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Donna Reznik Valentina Bravi Britt Warner Jennifer Gruen
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--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--
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