textfiles/occult/URANTIA/p161.txt

            Urantia Book Paper 161 Further Discussions With Rodan
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 Subjects Archive The Urantia Book Urantia Book PART IV: The Life and Teachings
  of Jesus : The Bestowal Of Michael On Urantia The Times Of Michael's Bestowal
 Birth And Infancy Of Jesus The Early Childhood Of Jesus The Later Childhood Of
   Jesus Jesus At Jerusalem The Two Crucial Years The Adolescent Years Jesus'
   Early Manhood The Later Adult Life Of Jesus On The Way To Rome The World's
  Religions The Sojourn At Rome The Return From Rome The Transition Years John
  The Baptist Baptism And The Forty Days Tarrying Time In Galilee Training The
Kingdom's Messengers The Twelve Apostles The Ordination Of The Twelve Beginning
  The Public Work The Passover At Jerusalem Going Through Samaria At Gilboa And
    In The Decapolis Four Eventful Days At Capernaum First Preaching Tour Of
 Galilee The Interlude Visit To Jerusalem Training Evangelists At Bethsaida The
  Second Preaching Tour The Third Preaching Tour Tarrying And Teaching By The
 Seaside Events Leading Up To The Capernaum Crisis The Crisis At Capernaum Last
   Days At Capernaum Fleeing Through Northern Galilee The Sojourn At Tyre And
   Sidon At Caesarea-philippi The Mount Of Transfiguration The Decapolis Tour
 Rodan Of Alexandria Further Discussions With Rodan At The Feast Of Tabernacles
   Ordination Of The Seventy At Magadan At The Feast Of Dedication The Perean
    Mission Begins Last Visit To Northern Perea The Visit To Philadelphia The
Resurrection Of Lazarus Last Teaching At Pella The Kingdom Of Heaven On The Way
           To Jerusalem Going Into Jerusalem Monday In Jerusalem ...
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                   Paper 161 Further Discussions With Rodan

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Introduction

ON SUNDAY, September 25, A.D. 29, the apostles and the evangelists assembled at
Magadan. After a long conference that evening with his associates, Jesus
surprised all by announcing that early the next day he and the twelve apostles
would start for Jerusalem to attend the feast of tabernacles. He directed that
the evangelists visit the believers in Galilee, and that the women's corps
return for a while to Bethsaida.

When the hour came to leave for Jerusalem, Nathaniel and Thomas were still in
the midst of their discussions with Rodan of Alexandria, and they secured the
Master's permission to remain at Magadan for a few days. And so, while Jesus
and the ten were on their way to Jerusalem, Nathaniel and Thomas were engaged
in earnest debate with Rodan. The week prior, in which Rodan had expounded his
philosophy, Thomas and Nathaniel had alternated in presenting the gospel of the
kingdom to the Greek philosopher. Rodan discovered that he had been well
instructed in Jesus' teachings by one of the former apostles of John the
Baptist who had been his teacher at Alexandria.

1. THE PERSONALITY OF GOD

There was one matter on which Rodan and the two apostles did not see alike, and
that was the personality of God. Rodan readily accepted all that was presented
to him regarding the attributes of God, but he contended that the Father in
heaven is not, cannot be, a person as man conceives personality. While the
apostles found themselves in difficulty trying to prove that God is a person,
Rodan found it still more difficult to prove he is not a person.

Rodan contended that the fact of personality consists in the coexistent fact of
full and mutual communication between beings of equality, beings who are
capable of sympathetic understanding. Said Rodan: "In order to be a person, God
must have symbols of spirit communication which would enable him to become
fully understood by those who make contact with him. But since God is infinite
and eternal, the Creator of all other beings, it follows that, as regards
beings of equality, God is alone in the universe. There are none equal to him;
there are none with whom he can communicate as an equal. God indeed may be the
source of all personality, but as such he is transcendent to personality, even
as the Creator is above and beyond the creature."

This contention greatly troubled Thomas and Nathaniel, and they had asked Jesus
to come to their rescue, but the Master refused to enter into their
discussions. He did say to Thomas: "It matters little what idea of the Father
you may entertain as long as you are spiritually acquainted with the ideal of
his infinite and eternal nature."

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Thomas contended that God does communicate with man, and therefore that the
Father is a person, even within the definition of Rodan. This the Greek
rejected on the ground that God does not reveal himself personally; that he is
still a mystery. Then Nathaniel appealed to his own personal experience with
God, and that Rodan allowed, affirming that he had recently had similar
experiences, but these experiences, he contended, proved only the reality of
God, not his personality.

By Monday night Thomas gave up. But by Tuesday night Nathaniel had won Rodan to
believe in the personality of the Father, and he effected this change in the
Greek's views by the following steps of reasoning:

1. The Father in Paradise does enjoy equality of communication with at least
two other beings who are fully equal to himself and wholly like himself--the
Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit. In view of the doctrine of the Trinity,
the Greek was compelled to concede the personality possibility of the Universal
Father. (It was the later consideration of these discussions which led to the
enlarged conception of the Trinity in the minds of the twelve apostles. Of
course, it was the general belief that Jesus was the Eternal Son.)

2. Since Jesus was equal with the Father, and since this Son had achieved the
manifestation of personality to his earth children, such a phenomenon
constituted proof of the fact, and demonstration of the possibility, of the
possession of personality by all three of the Godheads and forever settled the
question regarding the ability of God to communicate with man and the
possibility of man's communicating with God.

3. That Jesus was on terms of mutual association and perfect communication with
man; that Jesus was the Son of God. That the relation of Son and Father
presupposes equality of communication and mutuality of sympathetic
understanding; that Jesus and the Father were one. That Jesus maintained at one
and the same time understanding communication with both God and man, and that,
since both God and man comprehended the meaning of the symbols of Jesus'
communication, both God and man possessed the attributes of personality in so
far as the requirements of the ability of intercommunication were concerned.
That the personality of Jesus demonstrated the personality of God, while it
proved conclusively the presence of God in man. That two things which are
related to the same thing are related to each other.

4. That personality represents man's highest concept of human reality and
divine values; that God also represents man's highest concept of divine reality
and infinite values; therefore, that God must be a divine and infinite
personality, a personality in reality although infinitely and eternally
transcending man's concept and definition of personality, but nevertheless
always and universally a personality.

5. That God must be a personality since he is the Creator of all personality
and the destiny of all personality. Rodan had been tremendously influenced by
the teaching of Jesus, "Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven
is perfect."

When Rodan heard these arguments, he said: "I am convinced. I will confess God
as a person if you will permit me to qualify my confession of such a belief by
attaching to the meaning of personality a group of extended values,

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such as superhuman, transcendent, supreme, infinite, eternal, final, and
universal. I am now convinced that, while God must be infinitely more than a
personality, he cannot be anything less. I am satisfied to end the argument and
to accept Jesus as the personal revelation of the Father and the satisfaction
of all unsatisfied factors in logic, reason, and philosophy."

2. THE DIVINE NATURE OF JESUS

Since Nathaniel and Thomas had so fully approved Rodan's views of the gospel of
the kingdom, there remained only one more point to consider, the teaching
dealing with the divine nature of Jesus, a doctrine only so recently publicly
announced. Nathaniel and Thomas jointly presented their views of the divine
nature of the Master, and the following narrative is a condensed, rearranged,
and restated presentation of their teaching:

1. Jesus has admitted his divinity, and we believe him. Many remarkable things
have happened in connection with his ministry which we can understand only by
believing that he is the Son of God as well as the Son of Man.

2. His life association with us exemplifies the ideal of human friendship; only
a divine being could possibly be such a human friend. He is the most truly
unselfish person we have ever known. He is the friend even of sinners; he dares
to love his enemies. He is very loyal to us. While he does not hesitate to
reprove us, it is plain to all that he truly loves us. The better you know him,
the more you will love him. You will be charmed by his unswerving devotion.
Through all these years of our failure to comprehend his mission, he has been a
faithful friend. While he makes no use of flattery, he does treat us all with
equal kindness; he is invariably tender and compassionate. He has shared his
life and everything else with us. We are a happy community; we share all things
in common. We do not believe that a mere human could live such a blameless life
under such trying circumstances.

3. We think Jesus is divine because he never does wrong; he makes no mistakes.
His wisdom is extraordinary; his piety superb. He lives day by day in perfect
accord with the Father's will. He never repents of misdeeds because he
transgresses none of the Father's laws. He prays for us and with us, but he
never asks us to pray for him. We believe that he is consistently sinless. We
do not think that one who is only human ever professed to live such a life. He
claims to live a perfect life, and we acknowledge that he does. Our piety
springs from repentance, but his piety springs from righteousness. He even
professes to forgive sins and does heal diseases. No mere man would sanely
profess to forgive sin; that is a divine prerogative. And he has seemed to be
thus perfect in his righteousness from the times of our first contact with him.
We grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth, but our Master exhibits
maturity of righteousness to start with. All men, good and evil, recognize
these elements of goodness in Jesus. And yet never is his piety obtrusive or
ostentatious. He is both meek and fearless. He seems to approve of our belief
in his divinity. He is either what he professes to be, or else he is the
greatest hypocrite and fraud the world has ever known. We are persuaded that he
is just what he claims to be.

4. The uniqueness of his character and the perfection of his emotional control
convince us that he is a combination of humanity and divinity. He un-

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failingly responds to the spectacle of human need; suffering never fails to
appeal to him. His compassion is moved alike by physical suffering, mental
anguish, or spiritual sorrow. He is quick to recognize and generous to
acknowledge the presence of faith or any other grace in his fellow men. He is
so just and fair and at the same time so merciful and considerate. He grieves
over the spiritual obstinacy of the people and rejoices when they consent to
see the light of truth.

5. He seems to know the thoughts of men's minds and to understand the longings
of their hearts. And he is always sympathetic with our troubled spirits. He
seems to possess all our human emotions, but they are magnificently glorified.
He strongly loves goodness and equally hates sin. He possesses a superhuman
consciousness of the presence of Deity. He prays like a man but performs like a
God. He seems to foreknow things; he even now dares to speak about his death,
some mystic reference to his future glorification. While he is kind, he is also
brave and courageous. He never falters in doing his duty.

6. We are constantly impressed by the phenomenon of his superhuman knowledge.
Hardly does a day pass but something transpires to disclose that the Master
knows what is going on away from his immediate presence. He also seems to know
about the thoughts of his associates. He undoubtedly has communion with
celestial personalities; he unquestionably lives on a spiritual plane far above
the rest of us. Everything seems to be open to his unique understanding. He
asks us questions to draw us out, not to gain information.

7. Recently the Master does not hesitate to assert his superhumanity. From the
day of our ordination as apostles right on down to recent times, he has never
denied that he came from the Father above. He speaks with the authority of a
divine teacher. The Master does not hesitate to refute the religious teachings
of today and to declare the new gospel with positive authority. He is
assertive, positive, and authoritative. Even John the Baptist, when he heard
Jesus speak, declared that he was the Son of God. He seems to be so sufficient
within himself. He craves not the support of the multitude; he is indifferent
to the opinions of men. He is brave and yet so free from pride.

8. He constantly talks about God as an ever-present associate in all that he
does. He goes about doing good, for God seems to be in him. He makes the most
astounding assertions about himself and his mission on earth, statements which
would be absurd if he were not divine. He once declared, "Before Abraham was, I
am." He has definitely claimed divinity; he professes to be in partnership with
God. He well-nigh exhausts the possibilities of language in the reiteration of
his claims of intimate association with the heavenly Father. He even dares to
assert that he and the Father are one. He says that any one who has seen him
has seen the Father. And he says and does all these tremendous things with such
childlike naturalness. He alludes to his association with the Father in the
same manner that he refers to his association with us. He seems to be so sure
about God and speaks of these relations in such a matter-of-fact way.

9. In his prayer life he appears to communicate directly with his Father. We
have heard few of his prayers, but these few would indicate that he talks with
God, as it were, face to face. He seems to know the future as well as the past.
He simply could not be all of this and do all of these extraordinary things

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unless he were something more than human. We know he is human, we are sure of
that, but we are almost equally sure that he is also divine. We believe that he
is divine. We are convinced that he is the Son of Man and the Son of God.

When Nathaniel and Thomas had concluded their conferences with Rodan, they
hurried on toward Jerusalem to join their fellow apostles, arriving on Friday
of that week. This had been a great experience in the lives of all three of
these believers, and the other apostles learned much from the recounting of
these experiences by Nathaniel and Thomas.

Rodan made his way back to Alexandria, where he long taught his philosophy in
the school of Meganta. He became a mighty man in the later affairs of the
kingdom of heaven; he was a faithful believer to the end of his earth days,
yielding up his life in Greece with others when the persecutions were at their
height.

3. JESUS' HUMAN AND DIVINE MINDS

Consciousness of divinity was a gradual growth in the mind of Jesus up to the
occasion of his baptism. After he became fully self-conscious of his divine
nature, prehuman existence, and universe prerogatives, he seems to have
possessed the power of variously limiting his human consciousness of his
divinity. It appears to us that from his baptism until the crucifixion it was
entirely optional with Jesus whether to depend only on the human mind or to
utilize the knowledge of both the human and the divine minds. At times he
appeared to avail himself of only that information which was resident in the
human intellect. On other occasions he appeared to act with such fullness of
knowledge and wisdom as could be afforded only by the utilization of the
superhuman content of his divine consciousness.

We can understand his unique performances only by accepting the theory that he
could, at will, self-limit his divinity consciousness. We are fully cognizant
that he frequently withheld from his associates his foreknowledge of events,
and that he was aware of the nature of their thinking and planning. We
understand that he did not wish his followers to know too fully that he was
able to discern their thoughts and to penetrate their plans. He did not desire
too far to transcend the concept of the human as it was held in the minds of
his apostles and disciples.

We are utterly at a loss to differentiate between his practice of self-limiting
his divine consciousness and his technique of concealing his preknowledge and
thought discernment from his human associates. We are convinced that he used
both of these techniques, but we are not always able, in a given instance, to
specify which method he may have employed. We frequently observed him acting
with only the human content of consciousness; then would we behold him in
conference with the directors of the celestial hosts of the universe and
discern the undoubted functioning of the divine mind. And then on almost
numberless occasions did we witness the working of this combined personality of
man and God as it was activated by the apparent perfect union of the human and
the divine minds. This is the limit of our knowledge of such phenomena; we
really do not actually know the full truth about this mystery.

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 Subjects Archive The Urantia Book Urantia Book PART IV: The Life and Teachings
  of Jesus : The Bestowal Of Michael On Urantia The Times Of Michael's Bestowal
 Birth And Infancy Of Jesus The Early Childhood Of Jesus The Later Childhood Of
   Jesus Jesus At Jerusalem The Two Crucial Years The Adolescent Years Jesus'
   Early Manhood The Later Adult Life Of Jesus On The Way To Rome The World's
  Religions The Sojourn At Rome The Return From Rome The Transition Years John
  The Baptist Baptism And The Forty Days Tarrying Time In Galilee Training The
Kingdom's Messengers The Twelve Apostles The Ordination Of The Twelve Beginning
  The Public Work The Passover At Jerusalem Going Through Samaria At Gilboa And
    In The Decapolis Four Eventful Days At Capernaum First Preaching Tour Of
 Galilee The Interlude Visit To Jerusalem Training Evangelists At Bethsaida The
  Second Preaching Tour The Third Preaching Tour Tarrying And Teaching By The
 Seaside Events Leading Up To The Capernaum Crisis The Crisis At Capernaum Last
   Days At Capernaum Fleeing Through Northern Galilee The Sojourn At Tyre And
   Sidon At Caesarea-philippi The Mount Of Transfiguration The Decapolis Tour
 Rodan Of Alexandria Further Discussions With Rodan At The Feast Of Tabernacles
   Ordination Of The Seventy At Magadan At The Feast Of Dedication The Perean
    Mission Begins Last Visit To Northern Perea The Visit To Philadelphia The
Resurrection Of Lazarus Last Teaching At Pella The Kingdom Of Heaven On The Way
  To Jerusalem Going Into Jerusalem Monday In Jerusalem Tuesday Morning In The
Temple The Last Temple Discourse Tuesday Evening On Mount Olivet Wednesday, The
   Rest Day Last Day At The Camp The Last Supper The Farewell Discourse Final
 Admonitions And Warnings In Gethsemane The Betrayal And Arrest Of Jesus Before
  The Sanhedrin Court The Trial Before Pilate Just Before The Crucifixion The
Crucifixion The Time Of The Tomb The Resurrection Morontia Appearances Of Jesus
   Appearances To The Apostles And Other Leaders Appearances In Galilee Final
  Appearances And Ascension Bestowal Of The Spirit Of Truth After Pentecost The
                                 Faith Of Jesus

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